A Curious Case Of Mimicry

MIMICRY – the action or skill of imitating someone or something.

I haven’t observed the activities on the IG forum for some time. The last time it was when:

1. Jedbot Kenneth introduced strict moderator approval of all posts, so nothing appears live now. Hence, no challenging or revealing posts will ever see the light of day.

NotKnowing Threads Approval

2. Access to a membership list was removed, I guess to prevent harvesting of email addresses.

3. Facility to send personal messages (PM) to members was removed, which means no new members can learn that they are talking to an impostor. As for the old members who are in the grip of the illusion… they paid the money which needs to be justified, and they need a crutch which the real author does not feel inclined to offer anyone (good for him).

4. Facility to look at the timestamps was removed, so as not to track the comings and goings of anyone.

5. A few old threads with any trace of the scandal were deleted (no need to explain, the record needs to be clean in order to continue the deceit).

I also have to mention that three years ago Jedbot removed the search facility for non-members after I told him that I’d found a few contradicting posts of his. I asked him about this event, which he swiftly denied. Three days later there was no search for non members. I have an email exchange on the matter.

Mimicry 1A couple of months back Jedbot also placed an IP ban on my IP address, which meant no forum access. Yeah, right. This was fantastic news. For a long time I was contemplating getting a VPN, but since nothing illegitimate came from my end – there was no valid reason to spend extra money.

JedKen gave me the reason, and I embraced it fully, considering other possibilities that it provides now. Thank you!

I had a look at the Invisible Guru forum after some period of being occupied elsewhere. Hmm… same old same old. The formula of ensnaring minds and emotions remains unchanged:

Offer your wisdom in the form of a written dialogue (with a ‘student’ of course)

Plato, Jed and numerous others deployed this form. It sets an instant tone – you are the ignorant seeker, they – a fountain of wisdom in a position of authority. Now we have Ken joining the fold.

Student Dialogue

Make it a group affair

Mimicry 2 Groups have incredible power over people and are the best tools for keeping one ‘in the bosom’ and fully hooked. Think ‘Facebook’ and how it influences the world now. Remember, most humans have sheep mentality. Some, however, are shepherds and prefer to FORM the groups, usually with a well-defined hidden agenda. I don’t have to remind you that every ‘enlightened’ self-professed ‘teacher’ always runs some form of a group.

I don’t know if this below is true or deceit by design. However, I do know there is activity around the man by way of people coming and meeting him here in Cambodia. They all paid up, of course.

I was told he didn’t feel like the man of the books in person. ‘Something was missing‘ as it was expressed. Well, that’s because 1) he is not. 2) what are your expectations as far as gurus go? Of gods?

Thailand Event

Provide some freebies

We know that Jed does that too in the form of free short plays. It captures the audience that little bit further. Jedbot Kenneth provides his own versions, in the form of breathing exercises. Just when does one man become an authority on breath technique is beyond me. In fact, it is beyond me that you people NEED to be taught how to fucking breathe. No really…. do you? You forgot how to take air in and then let it out? How are we all still alive?

All I can say here… poison is free too.

Freebies

Make the content personal

Humans are suckers for personal connections. Make them feel special, even ‘chosen’, and they will do just about anything for ya. Kenneth, our master manipulator, has learnt that waayy back. Personal invitations do the trick in this case.

Personal Invitation


Having said the above, I also have people from Canada contacting me now, since the search for the name ‘Kenneth Mcmordie’ leads to this website. Most never heard of Jed McKenna and were looking for Ken. They are delighted to find where Ken varnished to. They tell me about other enlightening magical events of his past life that Kenneth Mcmordie used to create while residing in his home country. Delivered to them personally and with the unexpected miracle twist: the money and the promised land vanish simultaneously! A miracle!

Brazilian owl butterfly

 The price per person doesn’t seem to vary much: always around 2-3 thousand mark. When one pools the gullible folks to a respectable big crowd – the income rocks. However, people may be less inclined to chase someone for three thousand bucks, but they never forget the act of having been duped.

I have the details, as usual.

 

Here is one interesting situation to consider.

Since our Jed chooses to remain silent on the matter – the name of Jed McKenna, the person who writes about Truth, will be forever associated with a scam.

His name and the name of our very own scam artist, Jedbot Kenneth Mcmordie (had to put this in full, Google will index, lo) will always appear in close proximity. Not that either of them cares. It works, it puts the bread on the table, right?

… don’t you love life and its delicious ironies?

Green Grass Header

76 thoughts on “A Curious Case Of Mimicry

  1. Kenneth’s dumb-them-down version of “Think nothing, no thought/mind exists, relax, play” is taken for that of McKenna’s.

    Some members of the IG forum regularly read here, including Escapist. Some also send hostile messages, since their long-time investment in the belief of JedKen is too strong.

    In the minds of the people who spent years on that forum the two men are now merged into one. They find it near impossible to notice that the two versions are qualitatively different.

    But a drowning person will grab any piece of flotsam and jetsam in order to stay afloat.

    The IG forum is producing mindless drones. They don’t know it yet, and some may never find out. In the meantime.. JedKen sneakily drops his openings for potential sales:

    “I am mildly addicted to oxygen so I made a study of how to get the proper amount of the right stuff and one can get pretty high on that s h i t. That brings me to the question … do you have my breathing tape.”

    Do you have his breathing tape, folks? It is free. Apply for it, and while you are in the process of getting the tape – Kenneth might subtly convince you to engage further, and that will cost.

    The defenders say ‘He did a lot of good for me’. Then they open their mouth explaining what they comprehend now, and it is clear as daylight that they were taken the furthest AWAY from truth, reality and even jeddism. And they still faithfully follow whomever, Ken included. Many come back after a few years of absence. Why?

    Because they are as lost as they have ever been.

    As someone once said “That {the Invisible Guru] forum is a testament to the intellectual capabilities of his readership.” I wish I could speak to that person. They got it right at the time when I was convinced Ken was Jed.

    See… we all are stupid at one time or another.

    1. Some members of the IG forum regularly read here, including Escapist. Some also send hostile messages, since their long-time investment in the belief of JedKen is too strong.

      Are you kidding me? really?

      1. Are you genuinely surprised? It’s hard to tell from your expression.

        In any case – yes, really. No matter what they read, even the disclaimer from the author himself.

        And people cannot understand North Korean’s devotion to their leaders… those folks have no access to true information. Our folks do.

        Who is stupider huh?…

        1. Ofcourse I am not surprised. Make a statement in a group of people and you will have followers and opponents. Make your followers believe there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and they will doe everything for you. Look at all those cults around the world!

          I am not sure why you specific mention Escapist so I red his interaction with Jedbot on the IG site. I………….well I guess run out of words.

          1. Escapist seems to be the most mindless of all the people on the forum, which is probably why she mentioned him.

            What are the sorts of messages they sent you, Tano? And do you reply at all or just ignore them?

          2. Escapist is a good representative of the dynamic in which a person has a spontaneous mind experience, but completely fails to understand it.

            As a result, they enthusiastically paint a story around the experience. Except, Escapist’s story is not his own. It is the mind’s interpretation of all the ‘enlightenment’ data the mind had collected through reading books and discussing it with others – the Collective Hive Mind in action.
            People subconsciously borrow the interpretations of every phenomenon, instead of forming their own.

            He will recover from the idiocy one day, once the honeymoon ends.

            Regarding the messages… they tell me Kenneth is Jed, and say he does a lot of good.

            Who was it who said that a lie repeated many times – is eventually believed and becomes the truth?

            Ken has proved this statement.

            Perhaps, I should start claiming to be Jed’s wife.

  2. I paid about 1500 for the Nav Series. The money would have been equally well spent had I burned it all.

    ‘Truth at any cost’, that was probably my mindset at the time. Now this mindset is really stupid when you start applying it to your bank account. I didn’t think much about it back then, but looking back it’s a ridiculous transaction. It takes some proper ‘grooming’ to get someone to spend that amount of money for basically nothing, and even getting thanks in return.

    Luckily I never believed I was gaining any understanding or was becoming clearer on reality. I just got more and more confused. Hoping that it would all eventually lead somewhere, until I just got fed up with all the spiritual talk. I saw that it would only lead to more confusion, or in some cases the delusional belief that they actually were gaining some meaningful understanding.

    I never became too attached to Ken or the books. Enough to spend 1500 euros, not so much that I had to justify the money by becoming a (more) mindless follower. He does get a lot of hooks in, borrowing your terminology, he’s very good at that.

    I still take a look at the site every now and then, with a VPN (I already had one for torrents) as he had blocked my IP as well.
    It amazes me to see some that some people are already a few years on the forum. When will you see???

    1. People don’t realise just HOW MANY people got caught in the scam.

      In my conservative estimate Kenneth has made over half a million dollars by now.

      With me it is pretty clear, but why would he block your IP address? Seems extreme.

      Abd why do people just shrug their shoulders and let these guys walk away scott free?

      1. I didn’t stick to one account on the IG forum. There was a thread made by someone ranting about how the Nav series is a scam. I replied ‘Better ask for a refund.’ This was before I joined the Nav series. That’s when he blocked my IP.

        I can’t remember having any strong gut feelings at the time about doing the Nav series. It was probably masked by the ‘Truth at any cost’-mantra/brainwashing. And like you said, someone drowing will do anything to stay afloat.

        ‘Abd why do people just shrug their shoulders and let these guys walk away scott free?’
        I have no legal knowledge whatsoever, but it seems that I would have no leg to stand on as I willingly gave the money to him. Also, if it wasn’t for you I would have no idea who he is. Of course, there’s other things besides legal action, what sort of things did you have in mind?

        You mentioned a few times you have strong sense of justice (can’t remember exactly how you put it), which is why you started this site.
        I don’t feel the same need to do this, to me it’s not worth the effort necessary.
        Also, it seems people will get duped regardless of sites like this. You did hurt Ken’s business quite a bit. But there are countless others like him.

        1. I think I made some mistakes.
          The amount was around 1200 euros if I remember correctly. It’s a few years ago now, so it’s a little fuzzy.

          Also, the IP block could have been from after I joined the Nav series. It was a very innocuous comment, so it seemed extreme to me too that I received an IP block. Ken wasn’t aware that the account I made the comment with was me, who was doing the Nav Series, as that was done via email.

          1. Dont you like this fuzzy-ness? Keeps me more grounded and awake to whats “happening” now.

          2. I’m not sure what you mean.
            I meant to say that I can’t remember exactly how much I spent on the NS since it’s a long time ago.

          3. My brother bullied me for years and years when I was a kid. He treated me as less than human, and I still feel like that very often, combined with feeling totally helpless. Those feelings can get really intense at times.
            So for me it’s more feeling patterns that I have to deal with.
            Although, underneath that are a lot of beliefs, but those don’t run through my mind much that I’m aware of.

            So I don’t live in ‘reality’ all that much. Or like you put it, I am not grounded and awake to what’s happening now, but I live in my own world pretty much all the time.

          4. Maybe we are all very helpless. That why we take on roles, like father, son, director………Now we can add meaning to our lives and at the same time cover up this feeling of helplessness.

          5. I get what you mean by that.
            But my sense of helplessness is different I think. It is because I stood no chance against my brother at the time since he was a lot stronger than I was. It’s the feeling that I cannot stand up for myself or upset anyone, because if I do I will get my ass kicked, as that is how it was with my brother and I.

            Now I am not making this distinction to make my issue seem more important, it’s just different from what you are talking about.

            That’s actually something I’ve been thinking about. Why do I place so much importance on my emotions and let them control my actions? Even though when I look at my actual reality it doesn’t line up with my emotions at all, they still feel so important.

        2. I am curious why in ANY OTHER circumstance the following would raise red flags:

          1. A Western Union transfer to an unknown address

          2. A man residing in Cambodia who asks for money

          3. Money transfer to an unknown/anonymous name

          4. No confirmation whatsoever who one is dealing with.

          In any other normal circumstance people would consider all of the above highly suspect. I mean… Nigerian scams are less obvious. And yet…. common sense is just not there when it comes to ‘enlightenment’ and a promise of ‘salvation.’

          I am not concerned about countless others. Those others haven’t crossed my path. One cannot deal with others. One can only deal with what they encountered directly. I encountered Jed McKenna books and Jed McKenna impersonator Kenneth McMordie. Others – are irrelevant.

          What I have in mind is to shut down the forum and prevent any other such forums from mushrooming elsewhere. It would be sufficient, no legal action is necessary.

          Ken’s former Canadian acquaintances are telling me it would be nice to see some justice come to the man who also took from them, even if it was decades ago.

          As I said before – people never change. They simply change the costume.

          1. No it wasn’t about salvation for me. It was about a nagging feeling and like every feeling the mind will have a story about it. Mine was that something still was missing. That last thingy to push me over the cliff.

  3. I was in the first group doing the NS. I did not pay 1500 so I guess as there was more interest he also raised the price. Doing the NS didn’t feel right at the time but I did it anyway. I think its been over 3 years now but one lesson I will never forget.

    LISTEN TO YOUR GUT FEELING.

    1. Thank you.

      It is a very good lesson which I also acknowledged. The reason why this website and the information exists is exactly because I followed my instinst.

      What was your gut feeling telling you at the time?

  4. Not to take the course! Just didn’t feel right. The message from inside was very clear.

    1. I see. I had the same feeling and didn’t take the course. I wouldn’t have done in any case. I guess my sense of ‘Teach life skills, not Life” is always present.

    2. @ guest

      I am curious which name you went under. I remember quite a lot of the old members from 2014. My thread had the highest view count. I wanted to know what kind of human ‘Jed’ was.

      I was so earnest in my communication, even when I wasn’t looking for anything at that stage… what a mug.

      And so all of us mugs deserve a little comeback.

    1. Ah right… you were there from the beginning, right? Then gone and came back, perhaps a year or more later. I’d been gone by then, threads deleted, an occasional comment might be floating somewhere.

      1. Correct, had a couple of emotional burns at the time I was active on the old forum, needed time to implement, came back on the new forum with only a few posts so not an active member.

        1. On the forum there is only a fraction of the people who communicate with Ken.
          Some, like yourself, got registered, but didn’t post much, instead contacting him via his given email and enrolling into his scheme.

          Some don’t even register on the forum and contact him directly. In June 2017, when I opened this website, Ken’s response within a week was to publish information about the Nav Series, together with his contact gmail address. Before that people had to register on the forum prior to contacting him. Now they just write to him directly.

          He reiterated his contact details in a separate thread a couple of months ago. I presume that is because with the banishment of the PM system on the forum no one can send a PM to him (like they used to) and have to use an email address instead. So he made sure it is visible.

          Forum closure would put a stop to all this fraudulent trade.

  5. @kutkatt: I never gave a single penny to Jed/Ken or whoever runs that forum and never will. You gave him 1200 euros. Who’s the mindless one here?

    Someone with a “Truth at all costs” mindset won’t waste their time giving money to some unknown guru over the internet… they will just do the necessary spiritual practices and get enlightened themselves. Gurus are useless and that Nav series thing shouldn’t be taken seriously… it’s just an entertainment/ride for those who want an intimate relationship with “Jed”(or whoever runs that forum) or a feeling of adventure with a guru. That’s my interpretation of it at least

    1. Should not be taken seriously…. is passing self off as a known writer – not deceit?

      Further… is charging for courses while posing as the said writer – not a fraud?

      What is your interpretation?

      Judging by your comment – you’ve lost all sense of right and wrong.

    2. “I never gave a single penny to Jed/Ken or whoever runs that forum and never will. You gave him 1200 euros. Who’s the mindless one here?”

      You mightn’t have paid the money, but you have been lauding Jed McKenna as the only true ‘enlightened’ person, together with yourself. Look back at your writings of devotion on the IG.

      They contrast your statement that one does not need a guru. What the fuck are you doing on the forum still?

      Ah entertai….. shush. I’ve heard that bullshit explanation hundreds of times.

      You are knowingly enabling the fraud.

      Congratulations.

      1. I don’t know if he’s a fraud or not… the point is, I am enlightened, and I consider the guy on the forum to be also enlightened due to his writings(which are also my experiences).

        I don’t need a guru… I just post on that forum for entertainment now, I have nothing to gain there, in fact, I don’t even exist. Unfortunately, even though I am enlightened, the life-force is still there with all of it’s previous conditioning and programming, therefore activities, such as posting in the forum, still happen(to no-one)

        Right/wrong is all bullshit; all there seems to exist are meaningless movements in awareness happening to no one, which I like to call “entertainment”. From the standpoint of the Absolute there’s no difference between killing someone, or hugging them, and I see nothing wrong with either

        1. You absolutely do know. Don’t give me the feable excuse that conveniently overlooks fraud, or murder, or any despeakable doing that humans are capable of…. until YOUR child is murdered or YOUR sister is brutally raped or YOUR parents are swindled out of their life savings, or YOU kicked out into the street.

          You are not living in the Absolute. Stop using it as an excuse to justify wrong-doings, I have no patience for mindless enlightened drones who populate this world with incredible nonsense after an accidental mind trip.

          No person whose eyes are open – would call themselves enlightened.
          Shame you can’t see what is real.

          I will give you a few years to come to your senses. Maybe.

          1. There is such a thing as enlightenment, and it happens to no one. “I am enlightened” is just convenience, as there’s no “me” to be enlightened. All that exists is illumination, with an apparent person arising within it, probably just for entertainment.

            There are no consequences for anything and nothing matters in an illusory world – raping, killing, stealing are nothingburgers in a sea of nothingburgers. In the end there are no consequences to anything and awareness remains unchanged, and that’s what we really are

      2. And I may appear to contradict myself, but the contradictions are just functions of the ever changing body-mind and have nothing to do with my realization

        1. No, you are pretty consistent. I know where you are.

          Shut up and give it a few years. You may be able to see then. Right now you are still in illusion, only this time it is the illusion of enlightenment.

          Also… separate in your mind what Kenneth says from what the author of the books wrote. They are not the same views.

  6. Yes, no communication ever happens because there are no persons to communicate with each other — that’s the full Truth

  7. “nothing matters in an illusory world – raping, killing, stealing are nothingburgers in a sea of nothingburgers. In the end there are no consequences to anything”

    Hey-ho! The principle of the freshly cooked ‘enlightened’ drone —–> 🙈🙉🙊

    Go away.

    1. There are no consequences, no persons, and this conversation isn’t actually happening. All there appears to exist are endless appearances in the infinite field of universal and impersonal awareness. Jed doesn’t exist, you don’t exist, I don’t exist. That’s the last thing I have to say.

      As you wish, I’m leaving

      1. For those who read here.. from my observation this kind of ‘enlightened’ speak is extremely attractive to seekers…. endless appearance… field of ‘impersonal consciousness’… and so on.

        Why is it attractive? Well, the ordinary, burdensome life is what people question and what they are trying to escape. But where to go? Anywhere one turns – is still the same burdensome world, with all its endless problems and survival struggles.

        Enter ”impersonal awareness’. Doesn’t it sound otherworldly? Doesn’t it contain a promise of something better? Extraordinary? Clean? A true escape from it all?

        It sells. And it doesn’t take much to buy. Read enlightenment literature for a number of years… communicate with a number of self proclaimed ‘visionaries’… purchase a few of their products, for the most trusting and the desperate, and viola! the statement “I don’t exist, and neither do you” duly appears.

        Note that when you were a kid you never questioned own existence. You WERE. End of story. It’s only when the mind went into an overdrive later in that absurd ideas started to proliferate.

        You see…. often a lie is much more interesting, inviting, promising than the truth.

        I keep saying.. no one wants true. Most want a lying, but comforting lullaby: we don’t exist. The world is not real. The field of consciosness permeates all.

        Whatever the fuck that means. Electromagnetic consciousness huh..

        1. @Tano

          Wow, I love to see how riled up you get to point out the idiocies in the comments by Escapist.

          1. Hardly.

            I have nothing further to add to this exchange with Escapist.

            What were those JC words?… there are many rooms in my father’s house or some such?

            There are many ways to refuse to see Reality, as well as to lose one’s mind in the fake.

            Not my monkeys, not my circus.

        2. I really liked your post that started with ‘For those who read here’.
          It’s almost like a case study on things that you’ve talked about before.

          1. Negating the world’s existence instead of wanting to understand and see it – is the path of least resistence, the mindless path of self deceit.

            In the meantime… the world ain’t going nowhere.

        3. The fruit of “everything is illusion” realisation is carelessness. Only when kidnaped by ego it turns into indifference.

          In practice it can look like this:
          You are on your knees crying in despair, while another part of you, the awakened part, can be like: “Wow! Wow! What a beautiful human experience! I love it!”.

          The bigness of you joins the smallness. Not replaces it.

          Very different from “realise that the world is illusion and then do what the hell you want because nothing matters” BS.

          You don’t go beyond your human to stay there. (They repeat over and over “do not bypass your humanity”. Do we listen? Nope.) But a quick visit into Nothingness and then coming back and limiting yourself to your smallness again, because “there is nothing there” is not IT either.

          1. What do you mean by ‘everything is illusion’?
            It sounds like b.s. spiritual talk.

            I think it’s often used to cope with the harshness of life.
            ‘Oh this really shitty thing just happened to me, but you know, it’s all just an illusion so whatever..’

            And I fully agree with what Tano wrote
            “nothing matters in an illusory world – raping, killing, stealing are nothingburgers in a sea of nothingburgers. In the end there are no consequences to anything”

          2. @ jimmy

            except I didn’t say that. It was a quote from Escapist.

            And…. I absolutely do NOT agree with this blatent display of washing off one’s hands.

            There are always consequences to everything you do.

            P.S. You really need to figure out who you truly are. It seems to me you are not sure.

          3. That’s what I meant, saying everything is illusion is a dangerous line of reasoning because it leads to conclusions like that. Where even raping and killing is justified.

            Yes you’re right, I’m not very sure of who I am.

          4. “What do you mean by ‘everything is illusion’?
            It sounds like b.s. spiritual talk.”

            “Everything is illusion” can be:

            1. a mental concept/borrowed realisation – worth nothing – it can turn one into a heartless SOB
            2. an actual realisation but kidnaped and translated by ego-mind – can result in detachment from Life
            3. an actual realisation which is followed by “I am everything” realisation. Carelessness is joined by total care. And somehow these two coexist together.

            We don’t ban knives because some people use them to kill one another, do we?

      2. Escapist, eh? Why did you choose that name I wonder…
        “I don’t exist, it’s stories all the way down, I’m not sad, I’m nonexistent!”
        Fine, be that way but don’t forget to eat, sleep and exercise like the rest of us nonbeings.
        One last thing, you are correct that you don’t exist….. inherently.
        You exist in relation to other things that exist in relation to other things that exist relation to other things and so on. That’s causality for ya. There is nothing that exist on its own but that doesn’t mean there’s just nothing, quite the opposite. Learn the difference.

        with impersonal love, Jo

        1. “I don’t exist” isn’t an intellectual matter for me, but a deep realization. All that exists is consciousness, and the rest is made up garbage. Only Brahman exists, and that’s my experience

  8. Why do you say “…the rest is made up garbage.”? If everything is consciousness and there is recurring shapes like your thoughts and emotions arising according to your life history, is that not a part of the consciousness? Where do you draw the line?
    “Only Brahman exists” … and only a Sith deals in absolutes, haha.

    1. Consciousness is without parts and is total. All objects are a manifestation of consciousness, but they don’t actually exist, as whatever comes and goes has no being

  9. If you want to be “word-enlightend” be sure you got it right. We sort of agreed that awareness is the absolute and consciousness is relative (Nisargadatta). There can be no consciousness without awareness, but there can be awareness without consciousness, as in deep sleep. Consciousness functions as a sort of backdrop or screen upon everything in our lives appears. Even our sense of I. This sense comes and goes but consciousness seems very constand. But even consciousness has it breaks, gaps. Find them maybe you can find your true nature there.

  10. “whatever comes and goes has no being”

    Sure, impermanence is a thing but all the “I don’t exist” stuff that Ken has people spouting off kinda misses the point actually. When asking yourself the most basic question of “who am I” you should get a sense of your “beingness” then and there. The doing away with ego is doing away with pretense and mind stories about who you are and what’s supposed to happen. All that “enlightenment” is pointing to is present moment experience. Getting into a flow state, becoming familiar with the creative process, being intimate in the moment is to be in the “timeless state.”

    The “purpose” is to get you to drop mental concepts, not accumulate them. Carrying around the belief that nothing exists must create a strange filter through which you experience life and I cant really see how it would be very beneficial. But I ssuppose that after a while the need to agree with or even express yourself to others somewhat falls away and what replaces it is more of a deep sense of peace and trust in your own first hand experience…anyways, take her easy..

  11. All of you talking about Consciousness… you CAN, but give me some working definition of it.

    If you can’t… what the hell are we discussing? The boogeyman?

    It simply steers the conversation into the sphere of conceptual thinking. And if one wants concepts…

    Consciousness is the property of an organism which allows the organism to be aware of the environment, as well as of own position in that environment (self consciousness). It may, or may not, include abstract thought about the environment and self.

    Note that I didn’t say ‘human consciousness’. Consciousness is a universal property of every living creature, all the way down to amoebas. However, levels of conscious awareness differ among the species.

    I don’t understand why all the huhah around the word, and why it is made into a subject of complicated discussions among people.

    Ah wait… one can write books about it, a never ending stream of books. Get the PhDs going… it is easier than an architectural proposal of a new Potomac bridge: cannot be proven or disproved, but will gain one the name recognition. Then people can scratch their heads and wonder at leisure what this thingy (brain? consciousness? awareness? mind?) is that makes them be, do and think.

    They then call it ‘God’ or ‘Cosmic Awareness’ or some such pseudo important word. More books to follow.

    The truly wise man laughs, shrugs his shoulders and walks off to have dinner.

    Good night all.

  12. My experience is that the only thing that truly exists(or “is”) is the timeless I AM(the Being), that transcends both awareness and consciousness, and that at the same time is both awareness and consciousness.
    The “person”, or “self”, in my experience is a mental construct and totally unreal. During enlightenment, we enter a state named by Ramana Maharshi “manonasa”(which means mind destruction) and this state destroys the ego and the mind by the very seeing of their unreality; this means that at a relative level, it seems like the mind and the “self” are being destroyed, while form an Absolute level of seeing, nothing is happening because these two never really existed in the first place.
    When the person stops existing, life becomes more free, even free to play the game of individuality, or self improvement, or what have you

  13. Also, I’m not bound by concepts, and I am not brainwashed by Ken or whoever runs that forum. During enlightenment we just know without a shadow of a doubt that enlightenment has happened, it’s an indescribable clear knowing.
    After enlightenment I went back to read the rants on the forum and found that at least 80% of what forum Jed says are also my experiences, which is why I consider him truly enlightened.

    1. Escapist

      I asked you to leave. Not because I have ill feeling towards you, no. You are a harmless gullible fool, which is kind of endearing in its own way.

      I asked you to leave so that you don’t continue to sprout incredible nonsense here and pollute the EM site with exactly the mindless ‘first hand experience’ that I despise.

      You don’t understand AT ALL what happened to you. Instead of being thoughtful about it and trying to see behind the event, you grabbed all the existing spiritual drivel and attached it to your mind opening. It is misleading, and it is not even your experience, contrary to what you currently believe.

      You refuse to see Reality of the forum. You refuse to see Reality of your own mind shift. You refuse to see anything, but the overlays of previous stories you had read and now superimpose those onto your personal experience.

      You see… I wasn’t fool enough to take the mind shift and turn it into a spiritual farce as you are doing now. It is an insult to human intelligence and wisdom.

      It is an insult to the human mind.

      Do not reply. If you choose to – I will delete everything you wrote so far. There are other places on the net for nonsense like that, and I have little patience for it. I want to keep this little corner clean.

      Leave.

  14. It seems that for some people (me included) it is a phase after such experiences to latch onto the absolute side of things. I was spouting the same kind of drivel in the old forum of jedken.
    As you keep saying, it is a way to lull yourself into a false bliss of nothingness. But alas, the world doesn’t care, it keeps on going.

    It is like the zen saying about the mountains being mountains, mountains not being mountains and then mountains being mountains once again.

    Ego is very capable to make everything a part of itself, even when it advocates its own demise or nonexistence.

  15. @ Seagull

    What happened that allowed you to stop the drivel?

    The word ‘ego’ gets thrown around a lot as part of the spirituality discourse. Yet, as far as ‘spirituality’ goes – no one seems to have a shared, commonly understood definition of what Ego is.

    Another boogeyman, much maligned and spit upon. And when one looks up what Ego is, the most common shared definition is – Self. It simply means ‘I’ in Latin.

    Many humans have much hatred for themselves. Very few people genuinely like themselves.

    Some humans have much respect for themselves. We call them ‘confident’.

    Some humans have much love for themselves and believe they can do no wrong. We call them narcissists.

    All is ‘I’, ego, self. There is no separate ego which, as you said, “makes everything part of itself”. You are it. Self.

    We express that self based on the individual’s blueprint and life history. The longer the person lives – the more these two intertwine. Nature and nurture together shape one up.

    1. “What happened that allowed you to stop the drivel?”
      It stopped when I saw it to be just a crutch to my weak sense of self, when I saw through my machinations.
      There’s always some underlying need like a need to feel accomplished or to be accepted. Once I saw my own
      needs and motivations it became clear.

      “Many humans have much hatred for themselves.”
      Depression you mean?

      “All is ‘I’, ego, self. There is no separate ego which, as you said, “makes everything part of itself”. You are it. Self.”

      Life gives me this form as I give life its form, unseparated bunch we are.
      Ego is a fine label to describe this objectification of our minds that we express with language.
      Language is a made up thing but it points to something real. If we mistake these two we could end up believing that nothing is real…

      1. “There’s always some underlying need like a need to feel accomplished or to be accepted.”

        Not for everyone. Psychopaths don’t need validation. I don’t need validation, and neither does Jed I suspect. While different in origin, this places people who destroyed own emotional side – close to psychopaths, but only in this particular dimension.

        You said ‘depression’. Not exactly. People always compare themselves to others. Upon those comparisons they come to the (correct) conclusion that there are others who are more talented, better looking, smarter, more charismatic or simply luckier in life circumstance.

        That leads to feelings of deep inadequacy and dislike of self. People don’t want to be a ‘beta’. They want to be an ‘alpha’, but reality often confirms to them that they are not.

        Sometimes, depression may result from that, but depression in this case is a superficial reaction to a superficial perception.

        Language reflects the real world phenomena, yes, and it is damn accurate at that. But people hardly ever establish shared meanings of the words before exchanging them, which often leads to misunderstanding of meaning. Such as in our ego example.

        Language is a system of symbols. Animals also have various forms of language, we just don’t speak/understand the symbolism. Which should be possible to decode and, in some cases, emulate.

        Interesting that you said ‘a weak sense of self’. From my personal observations there are two opposing events during the mind opening: some people ‘lose’ a sense of self, while others ‘gain’ a sense of self.

        In both cases it is beneficial to the individual. It restores the balance. However, people get attached to whatever they gained or lost, and it becomes their primary focus in trying to make sense of their experience.

        I suspect that Escapist had a pretty strong sense of self prior, or in spiritual ‘speak’ – a strong ego, hence, to him the understanding that he is a complete nothing, an ant, a zero – is an earth- shaking revelation.

        Many paths down the mountain. Funny how it works.

        1. ‘some people ‘lose’ a sense of self, while others ‘gain’ a sense of self’
          Wow, that’s an interesting observation. For me it’s gaining a sense of self most likely.

          1. It is not miraculous.

            People with a strong sense of self suddenly realise own insignificance in the face of this all, this Life. This is sobering and humbling.

            Hence ‘I am nothing’.

            People with a weak sense of self suddenly realise that their presence in the world matters a great deal, because it subtly changes the fabric of existence. You know… the butterfly effect.

            Hence, ‘I am everything.’

            Between the two my life flows… haha, I sound like Nisargadatta… well, it was him who said it, but the old sod couldn’t be clear about the meaning of his utterances.

            Balance.

  16. “Not for everyone. Psychopaths don’t need validation. I don’t need validation, and neither does Jed I suspect. While different in origin, this places people who destroyed own emotional side – close to psychopaths, but only in this particular dimension.”
    Destroyed you say… I can’t say I have destroyed my emotional side completely (you didn’t use “completely” either), my emotions have mellowed as the need for validation is gone by now.
    When I make music, I let myself to become emotional that I can express those emotions through music. But in normal situations there’s very few things that can stir a strong emotion in me. Emotions are not a problem per se, it’s when people loose their control for being too caught up in emotions. Just let them be and they fade as quickly as they came (the chemicals that are responsible flush out from your system in a minute if you don’t prolong emotional reaction with thoughts). Although Sometimes it’s useful to have a little bit of anger behind your action for example, not very often though.

    Depression usually comes with self deprecating thoughts that are not aligned with reality even thought what you said is understood by the individual.
    But yes, there can be an existential depression that comes from realizing the superficiality, and many artists and philosophers seem to have suffered from it.

    “Language is a system of symbols. Animals also have various forms of language, we just don’t speak/understand the symbolism. Which should be possible to decode and, in some cases, emulate.”

    I know right? It’s funny to me that we have made dolphins to learn and understand our language but we can’t be bothered to learn theirs. Or we are not intelligent enough but if that’s the case, what is that telling us about our own intelligence? It’s not that long ago that some researchers used computer algorithms to make sense of rats squeaks, maybe with the power of technology we will get the dolphin-human dictionary…

    “In both cases it is beneficial to the individual. It restores the balance. ”
    Huh, that is an interesting way to look at it. I’ve never had a strong ego so in that way it was not a cataclysmic event, the shift was subtle at the moment but the indications were much more than I firstly understood.
    In the past, I felt like I don’t belong, life felt like a hazy dream most of the time.
    I haven’t felt detached many years now even though I still like to be by myself most of the time.
    The world is my beloved friend, not an outside enemy.
    ps. I’m slightly worried for the human race though…

    1. I am not concerned about the human race, in the same way I am not concerned that dinosaurs went extinct, or the fly you’ve just swatted – died instantly.

      I mean… you don’t really care about that fly, do you? Well, from my perspective there is absolutely no difference between humans and any other species that have ever populated the planet.

      I can’t stress enough just how equal we are in our right to exist.

      This of course opens a can of worms. Would I swat a human just as easily? I thought the answer was ‘no’, but apparently I would if one invaded my space or if my life was at risk. I would not hesitate, because my survival instincts take over.

      Fighting off a knifed masked man in Sri Lanka by sticking a burning cigarette in his eye seemed to have proven that point.

      The universe (All that Is) will sort it out one way or another. It always does, and we won’t be here to observe it.

      1. ”Fighting off a knifed masked man in Sri Lanka by sticking a burning cigarette in his eye seemed to have proven that point.”

        That sounds absolutely terrifying. Once a couple of kids pulled a prank on me when I was taking a walk in the evening. They followed me an kept whistling at me, I ignored but they persisted. When I turned around I saw they were wearing masks. Gas mask and other just covered his face with a scarf or something. I stopped and they approached me slowly. At 2 meter distance something took over in me, instinct. I pulled out my phone an threatened to film, wasn’t actually filming tho, no time to unlock the phone (I agonized over that later, footage would have been great for the police). They started to turn around so I knew they were not going to harm me. They could’ve just attacked me after all. But I went berserk out of fear. I just felt like I had to terrify them so I started yelling shit like ”Nice mask can I borrow it?” and jumped on top of a boulder to be bigger ”Who’s scared now huh?”. But in reality I was the one super terrified ofcourse. When they were far enough I ran home as fast as possible and called the cops, but I feel like they did not take me seriously.

        Up till today I am quite amazed at the state I entered. But I no longer take walks alone in the evening.

        Do find it quite strange, because when someone threatened me in high school, I was pushed up against a wall, I just peed my pants and paralyzed.

        Makes me think of a question. Did you ever feel the feeling of wanting revenge? Did it go away after TR? I know that I’d never disadvantage myself to take revenge on someone. They brought enough sorrow. But something I do imagine it and it makes me sad that there is still pieces of pain in me from those times.
        Thank you for your answer.

        1. I wasn’t scared. Not because I am beyond fear, but because there was simply no time to feel fear. It happened really fast and was over in three minutes.

          I don’t hold grudges, certainly not for myself, and revenge is not part of my vocabulary. HOWEVER, (and I am speaking hypothetically) if there was a situation where my son was murdered in particularly gruesome circumstances that involved torture and pain – I might want to seek out those who did it, and serve, methodically and slowly, the exact amount of pain to them.

          Only for him I guess. For myself – I don’t really care. If you observed humans closely you will know that they do avenge on behalf of others most often. Not on behalf of themselves.

          Which is, in fact, a ray of hope. It indicates that generally human beings suffer more when pain is inflicted on those they care about, not when pain is inflicted on themselves.

          1. Sometimes I don’t know how to bear the knowledge that at any given time so much harm is being done to innocent creatures. I don’t read the news frequently anymore because I find it hard not to let it get to me so much. But sometimes I do and it makes me feel so powerless. I suppose it is a ‘ray of hope’ but not more than that. Because people only care if it is someone they care about. Too many people hurt other creatures for no reason at all. Just because they are bored.

            I can’t help but ask why this is reality. And I guess there is a psychological reason for it. But still, why did it have to be this way? I suppose you would say there is no ‘ why ‘ to reality. Only humans ask questions of meaning.

            Do you think the good weighs off to the evil in life? As in, the things that a good person would value as being good, is it worth it to exist at cost of all the suffering that must co-exist?

            One day it will all be over. But who knows if it will come back? They don’t even know if this is the only universe. Does it happen over and over? Seems more logical to me. You say you are TR, but how far does your knowledge cover? It covers your own organism and the human race most likely. Earth maybe. But what beyond?

          2. The question ‘why this reality and why it has to be this way’ has no answer. However, you can look at the bottom line of how Life is organised.

            I said this before, and it is completely overlooked. Yet, this is the reason why we perceive life as hard and cruel.

            The reason is simple: for an animal to live – some other animal or plant has to die.

            Ponder that. Think of where it leaves a sentient and cognitive creature such as the human being.

            My knowledge is limited, but my knowing covers everything, even though there is plenty I don’t know. At the basis of all Universe is a simple interaction of subatomic particles. If one looks at how living creatures obtain energy – it is all about losing and gaining electrons, which in turn allows formation of different chemical compounds, which in turn leads to organic compound formation.

            The effect is cumulative, but occasionally gets disrupted by unexpected events.

            The laws of physics cannot be changed. Even chemistry, biology are only predictive and descriptive physics.

            These two: laws of physics and simple chance – shape the universe on every level, from bacteria to galaxies.

            If you are asking what is going to happen to the Universe… I don’t know and am not concerned. The scale of it is such, so vast and infinite that I see no tangible merit in considering any scenarios, since it is not my professional occupation.

            And even if I can think of it occasionally… I don’t lose my mind over it in the same way you do.

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