A Kenneth McMordie Poll

In my recent discussion on the activities of the Invisible Guru forum I was asked what I had in mind as a form of pursuit.

It is clear that legal recourse is not an option, for the following reasons:

1. It will be impossible to prove legally that we are dealing with an impersonator and his fraudulent scheme.

It will be impossible, because it would be necessary to show who the real author is. The real author won’t engage in the disclosure exercise. It is not in his interests, either professionally or financially, to defend the case of an usurped identity. If anything, controversy makes his business more profitable and his persona more interesting.

2. Kenneth McMordie’s place of residence protects him from any further pursuit of justice.

Cambodia shields paedophiles, murderers and financial swindlers of international calibre. Some are well-known here, their whereabouts and activities, their businesses and local connections, but no one can do anything about it OR wants to, for that matter.

What people do not quite understand is that any big criminal investigation is driven by:

  • a possibility of a serious financial recovery (we are talking millions here), OR
  • publicity generated around the case, which would put pressure on investigative team to deliver, OR
  • political interests whereby a criminal investigation supports someone’s career interests and, thus, is used as a poster case

Occasionally, some or all of these factors magically converge and lead to cases being relentlessly pursued until the results are yielded.

This is not the case here. A case of a small scale crook is of no interest, because there are no tangible benefits (money, fame or glory) to be gained for anyone concerned. Sad, but true.

Don’t kid yourselves. Just like in this human game of spirituality, Truth is never really pursued, but it is made to LOOK as if so.

What IS pursued are personal agendas.

To those who think that I am a vicious terrier who is harassing an elderly gentleman… some people never get their comeuppance. They plunder their way through life and die in peace. Well.. why don’t I wear the costume of Ms. Karma for a while and make the lives of those who defraud – slightly more uncomfortable?

Only slightly. While my activities certainly disrupted Kenneth’s cosy setup, I am not stupid to ignore the limitations as outlined above, and it takes more than one internet warrior to affect some tangible change.

Kenneth is now giving public lectures in SE Asia. It was confirmed to me by someone who attended. There are plenty of people drawn to this part of the world by a heady combination of sexual/spiritual pursuits, as well as a relatively easy life, so the crowd is potentially there for him to exploit. Ken still claims to be a model for Jed McKenna books, but does state that he didn’t write them. Just an ‘inspiration’ for them huh…

Not true.

I understand that people love the entertainment Kenneth and his story provide. It is highly absorbing (some read all in one sitting), distorts one’s everyday perspective (who needs drugs!), feels like an adventure (exotic countries and exotic invitations), is packed with highs and lows (is he? is he not?). Many people will readily sacrifice principles for that much fun. I mean.. think of the Roman gladiators: a spectacle of the publicly executed murder FOR FUN was not an obstacle to the crowd’s enjoyment.

However, I think Kenneth’s activities need to be curtailed as much as possible. They do more harm than good, even if his followers believe otherwise. But then… his followers have been following for years and remain none the wiser. This is how most scams work – they exploit a human propensity to trust before questioning, and only questioning after the trust has been undermined.

Therefore, here is the public poll. I would like you to answer this simple question below. P.S. I removed the option ‘other’. It had a comment line to explain what that other option could be, but people don’t fill it in, therefore rendering their answer useless. Lazy sods.

Note: I don’t know if YBS (whose identity I figured out, and we communicated) still reads this website, but I would like to say the following:

You  once said to me that you, just like myself, hate deceit and would like to see Kenneth apprehended.

There is a ‘scam-them-all’ momentum gathering pace here that has moved into a physical sphere as opposed to internet interactions. Kenneth is giving lectures as Jed McKenna’s ‘inspiration’ and ‘the model man’. Therefore, I would like to talk to you, and I am making this request public.

Burnt Orange Geader

43 thoughts on “A Kenneth McMordie Poll

  1. I answered no, not because I condone what’s going on there but because people are responsible for themselves. They are responsible for taking in the information discerning it and making their own judgements.

    As far as I’m concerned, getting duped by a con man for betraying your own sense of inner authority is one of the more valuable lessons a person could learn. Does that make it right? Absolutely not but this world isnt kind to the naive and there are much worse ways to be taken advantage of so if that’s what it takes to get the point…(shrugs.)

    I think it should go on exactly as it is. If it skmehow benefits you to be involved in it then great, if you’re like me and often forget that the place exists then, let it be.

    1. I wish I could agree that people need hard lessons, but.

      It falls in the same category as Ken’s argument that we need to litter the streets because it gives jobs to litter pickers.

    2. ”I answered no, not because I condone what’s going on there but because people are responsible for themselves. They are responsible for taking in the information discerning it and making their own judgements. ”

      From own experience I can say that there is basically no guidance in a humans life toward common sense. All is based so that one consumes as much as possible and complies with society’s standards. Thinking for yourself is not part of the education here. Ignorance is promoted.

      Even the fact that Jed does say ‘Think for yourself’ but no one actually does it?!… That proves how far gone we are. They mindlessly just absorb what he says and follow his teaching. I no longer read any spiritual books. I got sick of the very misleading content.

      It’s embarrassing to admit that most of my common sense was obtained after reading certain posts on this website and communicating with EM. I’ve felt for a long time that something wasn’t right but it all fell into place here.

      My point is, when you find a human so far gone, would you just say ‘It’s his own responsibility.’? Even when there was no one there to guide them? If you say that, and you want to remain consistent, then your judgment also applies on other situations where humans are manipulated for lack of better knowing. For example a woman is manipulated into working in prostitution. They promised a bunch, but she ended up being exploited. If she had common sense it would not have happened. But she was did not know better, no one told her.

      All I can say is that I am grateful that EM was there to state the obvious that was by no means obvious to me. Every human deserves such a chance.

      1. Of course thinking for yourself isnt part of the “education.” (The two concepts are polar opposites.) But I dont believe for a second that no one is skeptical in your country.

        …..

        So you’re thinking that people should just be informed of the “truth” (which who’s to say what that is!?) Have you ever tried to advise someone unsolicited? What generally happens?

        ….

        All I’m really getting out of what you’re saying is that you’ve had to learn some hard experiential lessons.

        I’m glad that EM has helped you. Having some conversation with her played a large part in my maturity as well. That’s the only reason I still stop by here. I sincerely appreciate her not because she strokes my ego but because I know the value in a healthy conversation with someone who has firmly has a different perspective.

  2. It’s also a place where I began to ask myself some serious questions that inevitably allowed me to take what he had said weigh it against what I felt and come to my own conclusions regardless what “the guru said”

    I feel like others should be granted that opportunity as well.

    1. You did it for free. Many do it for… what is the current charge? Hmm… honestly, J, it is the same as saying “My older brothers treated me badly. So I am gonna treat my younger brother in the same way, or else how is that fair? He needs to have an opportunity to learn.”

      This is crazy logic.

      1. From my perspective its “crazy” to think that people can be saved from learning hard lessons. That’s just the way it is sometimes. You can actually handicap people by not letting them experience certain difficulties and overcoming them.

        1. Would you apply the same principle to, let’s say, rape or murder?

          The fact that con artists exist – does not make con artistry act a valuable experience.

          If someone was mugged in the street and you were passing by – would you say it would be a handicap for the person to receive help from you? They need their hard lessons, right?

          What makes you think that the internet and SE Asia scams fall into a different category somehow? Do you even understand what happens as a result of such scams?

          I am fairly certain that when your daughter gets in trouble – you would wish someone to be there to help, correct? or would you say she needed her ‘lessons’?

          You are an idiot, J, I am sorry to say (not!!!). I think your moral fibre has been chiselled out of you by this ‘enlightenment’ journey.

  3. No my mind never made the connection between my family being raped/murdered and a guy pretending to be a guru on the internet.

    We’re talking about deceit. Something that people encounter every day. Not rape and murder.

    My morals are intact but I’m able to focus, choose my battles and get clear about the enemy (most often my own unconscious thought processes). Thank god for this “idiocie” if the purpose was to get lost on a moral tangent that bears no resemblance to the original topic of discussion.

    1. We are not talking about merely deceit. Deceit does not involve Western Union transfers. We are talking about fraud, please do not minimise this by subtly replacing the meaning.

      And people do NOT encounter fraud every day.

      I do not understand your last paragraph about ‘idiocie’ as you say.

  4. To finish my thought: This is why discussion with you is often less than satisfying. All it takes is a difference in opinion to send you over the edge and for the conversation to devolve into name calling. Interesting for someone who claims not to be emotional. You have no problems challenging anyone or anything….except for maybe yourself. Which is really boring. A conversation with someone who thinks they know everything. Zero humility. Which begs the question of why are you so unhappy if you have all the answers already? A stagnant pond comes to mind.

    1. “This is why discussion with you is often less than satisfying.”

      Who are you kidding… you love arguing with me. Absolutely love it.

      Back to the subject……. as you notice I cannot go back to the subject from what you said, because you said nothing on the subject in the above passage of yours.

  5. It’s the “worth doing” part that I’d have to grapple with. But maybe that IS your purpose. To take down the IGF. Okay….My focus is a little more narrowed as to what’s actually withing my sphere of control. Removing others life choices from the equation results in more efficiency.

    The original topic was an internet scam artist. Then you railed at me about advocating for rape and murder slightly before I lost interest.

    “A case of a small scale crook is of no interest, because there are no tangible benefits (money, fame or glory) to be gained for anyone concerned.”

    This is the truth. It’s a rather small matter that people would have to willfully go poking around to get involved in in the first place. There are no victims because he hasn’t reached out to anyone who hasn’t reached out to him. You dont understand because you’ve been emotionally hijacked. Maybe you paid for the course or maybe that’s the reason you moved to SE Asia. No matter, your perception is skewed by revenge and you will have it. Good for you. I’ve got better things to do.

    1. It seems to me you are playing a savvy politician, J. You, of all people, should know that revenge does not come into this at all. Why? There is nothing to avenge for. Yet, you are determined to distort the facts. And the facts are the following:

      I never paid any money, and YOU are well aware of that.

      I never took any courses.

      I explained how I moved to SE Asia, and it is not the place to live for expats, unless one is a male in search for cheap thrills, mostly.

      I stayed on the forum for six months and left after having deleted everything, when it became clear to me that I was not to learn anything.

      I never had any personal involvement with Ken (just pre-emptying your further suggestions, you don’t seem to be beyond an agenda here).

      Ken never insulted me or otherwise harmed me in any way, other than lying continuously. At this point I certainly know him less than some of his followers who participated in his ‘courses’ and physical meetings.

      You are an average representative of the human race who generally places the bar very low when it comes to dealing with fellow human beings. By ‘very low’ I mean a total acceptance of the fraud, as along as it does not affect you personally. This is why the word ‘revenge’ comes as the first explanation of everything that I am doing. It tells me much about your state of mind. It is simple, and it perceives everything from the standpoint of ‘I, Me, Mine’. Disappointing in relation to you specifically, but not unexpected.

      Well, I am designed differently. If you have a problem with that – get out. You know the facts as you have communicated with me FOR YEARS, even before the EM took place. Yet, you manipulate the facts … what for?

      Shame on you.

  6. Just trying to figure out why you’d devote so much attention (life energy) to this. I certainly dont. You can say that its because I have little concern for the wellbeing of others but that’s just not true. I simply understand that you cant protect people from life. That’s their responsibility.

  7. It is OK that you want to figure that out, J.

    Just don’t figure it out by way of character assassination. Don’t behave like the herd, whose instinct is always to jump on someone’s throat first, and think later.

    All you had to do is ask “I am trying to understand why you’d devote so much attention (life energy) to this.”

    See?…. It’s easy and doesn’t involve petty bickering. And all I had to do for this honest question to finally appear was to call you an idiot. Because if I hadn’t – you would have continued hiding behind words.

    Anyway… there are many factors, some rational and some unexplainable.

    1. I hate deceit. I hate the idea of someone taking other people’s minds and money and getting away with it.

    2. I have done all the things you are doing now (family, jobs, kids, properties, holidays blah blah). There is nothing of interest for me there.

    3. What other activity would you recommend for me that you consider more worthwhile? Can you see how weird it sounds? That’s because no activity is inherently more worthwhile than another.

    4. It makes me learn. You have no idea just how much I have learnt as a result of this website, in many different areas.

    5. I would like to think that in some small part my wasted (from your perspective) life energy has helped someone to reevaluate their perspective and choices.

    That’s what I could think of straight up, but in the end of the day it comes down to this:

    I am driven to do so and I don’t know why.
    That’s the unexplainable part. I gave my answer to your question a long time ago.

  8. I think if it closes, it will just pop up under another alias.

    Honestly think it has no impact long term. People who flock to those things don’t know better. Even if the forum closes they won’t have the proper knowledge to not fall into a similar trap. This does not mean that I want to see the forum open though.

    I think you already are doing as much as you can by exposing him here and offering the truth about it.

        1. That quote of yours does not resonate with what I mean. What do you mean apathy? Do you involve yourself in every unfair situation in the world? I just believe you are doing what you can already.

    1. I am not interested in saving those who flock to spiritual forums in general, and Ken’s forum in particular. As J. pointed out (correctly) – no one can be ‘saved’.

      I am interested in preventing Kenneth from continuing to benefit from his scam. As I once said to someone, if he wanted to play this enlightenment gig and strip people of their earnings – he should have at least done it on his own merit. But he borrowed another’s name as a vehicle for success, and boy! did he succeed.

      In the same way, an investigator would not be interested in those potential future victims. An investigator is only interested in stopping the criminal. By doing so – they prevent potential future victimization, yes, but it is NOT their primary concern.

      You both have missed the point.

      1. “I am interested in preventing Kenneth from continuing to benefit from his scam.”

        You are going to have a hard time “proving” to his followers that they have indeed been scammed. There are several examples of peope who picked up on these concepts and believe that they “got it.”

        “An investigator is only interested in stopping the criminal. By doing so – they prevent potential future victimization”

        You dont actually believe that do you?

      2. Oh I see. Indeed I did not get you objective very well from your article. Thanks for clarifying.

        In that case why did you even create a poll? Wouldn’t it be your own decision whether you take action in that sense? Why ask for opinions of others?

        1. I was curious as to how people will vote, whether they will vote at all.

          The EM has a diverse audience. The majority of people read, but remain silent. I wanted to see if this will translate into the same action when it comes to voting.

          1. You’re basically wasting people’s time with a dysfunctional poll(it’s your own fault for allowing empty fields to be submitted), then blaming the ones who do make an effort: calling them ‘lazy sods’, creating discussions and speculation(bec your article triggers that and you know it), all because you are just curious?

          2. It takes much longer to read any article than to click a button. Where is the time waste?

            The button ‘other’ appeared by mistake, and only thtee people had voted before I removed it. However, my comment stands: why say ‘other’ without giving an explanation on what that ‘other’ option is? Lazy.

            It also made me think that if I ever partucipate in any polls in the future – I will not click ‘other’ without commenting on it further, or I will not click ‘other’ at all.

            Yes, I am curious. Big companies conduct polls in order to determine how to sell their products better. Do you think that would be a better reason for polling – to peddle something to you?

          3. If I’m misinterpreting something here, please do clarify… But this is how it appears right now to me.

  9. Let me clarify…

    One of the definitions of a victim can be defined as “a person who is tricked or duped”

    You think that by removing him from the equation that you reduce the potentiality for future victimization?

  10. Have you ever seen the promises made by the fitness industry that are let’s say…less than honest? People are paying big bucks on sups to get results obtained from steroids not that fancy tub of protein. Basically the entire supplement industry is a lie. Yet it’s big bucks and going strong as ever BECAUSE PEOPLE BELIEVE IN IT. They believe that they couldn’t have done that themselves.

    Silly example but same goes for most advertising. The point is to make people believe that they are somehow inadequate without the thing only you have to offer.

    Victimization is a mindset. Self confidence and reliance only came after I was done being “a victim. ” That was a choice I made based upon my experiences. Not something that someone did for me. Then again I left IGF long before I knew or cared about who was running the show there.

    I knew intuitively that something wasn’t right there.

    But who knows what should be done. I believe in being a person of integrity because I believe that builds character. But why not just do the right thing in each moment rather than pin point this particular thing? Just curious.

  11. I dont think I’m being very clear.

    What I’m trying to say is that maybe the only way to get over being a victim is to actually be one for a time…and to get sick of it

    1. Got you going.

      Discussions like this are valuable, because they allow people to formulate their position, make it absolutely clear in their minds and make the linguistic expression succinct.

      From your perspective: why do it, if people believe Kenneth’s story, and more will come.

      Extrapolate this to other sitiations:
      ..why wash the dishes, they will only get dirty again.

      ..why run for presidency, you will only have to leave the post in a few years

      ..why become fit, you will only age and lose it all.

      ..and the big one: why do anything, we will only shuffle off the mortal coil in the end.

      Why? Because.

      Have enough wisdom to do your thing and let others do theirs.

      That would be what you called to me for – doing the right thing in the moment.

      The right thing – for you. Often the right thing for one individual turns out to be the wrong thing for another. I mean.. enjoying murder is the right thing for a serial killer, and I will never succeed in ‘persuading’ one not to pursue their passion. All that can be done is catching one and isolating them.

      Neither can one be persuaded to change. This is how things go around in the world: it is competing views, interests and attempts to establish those interests as dominating that lead to clashes between humans. Our little conversation here is a tiny reduced version of what takes place in the world out there.

      I am not naive to think that Ken will change his ways. I am not naive to think that the following he is attempting to create – will one day wake up and see the scam. I am just doing the right thing, and I am doing it for myself.

      Be grateful that I am not a serial killer.

  12. I voted yes. I appreciate McMordie will adapt and continue in other ways, but I object to the deceit. I also wash dishes, exercise, and take supplements, despite it all coming to naught in the end.

  13. Hi Tano

    Given the place, and your kindness, I thought to attempt a formulation of some views on this subject of being duped and those who do so, based on considerable experience in being a dupe.

    Firstly, all my knowledge about Kenneth and IGF comes only from your website. My views on the subject are, therefore, based on experiences of being duped through avenues other than the IGF or Kenneth’s activities.

    As a brief qualification, I would add that I am that person who has spent tens of thousands of money – too much to count – as well as decades on purchasing false promises from people and places who/ that were both “visible” and “invisible”.

    As a sideline, I have also come to see that there are at least two kinds of humans. One, who like me, comes with a natural and unimpeded propensity to trust and to be duped and second, who have to be convinced, persuaded and even then naturally tend to be super cautious before trusting if they do it at all.

    In monetary terms, generally, I would say that I have always tended to lose more and also more readily on the appeal of the “invisible” rather than the “visible.”

    Another way to make the distinction may be to say that I have always tended to lose more and more readily on future promises than on obtaining an immediate return for investment or transaction.

    Perhaps this is only a way of personally learning the truth of the aphorisms, “Grass is greener on the other side,” and the same thought expressed in Urdu as “The distant drums are (always more) pleasing.”

    One conclusion that I have come to draw is that the most significant asset that people who dupe capitalise on, is the invisibility combined with a secret or multiple identities. To some, this may seem self-evident or even stupid but for me, it has been lesson learned. I have always fallen over and over by people who were invisible, far away and held out some future promise. Once those people or places became visible, soon, the propensity was gone.

    My vote for your question is yes, simply because I detest the appeal of the “Invisible,” especially when combined with the word “Guru.” The “Forum” makes it all the worse. And also because I have come to despise disingenuous deception and people/ organization that perpetrate it. I would have no hesitation in consuming – given the circumstances – my life energy in making even a single one of these people, forums or ideas visible and explicit.

    With a stretch, one may conceive of Jed McKenna – the actual writer of the books – to be in the same category of deceivers, but may not because as I read his books, he never claimed to be a guru. Like many, I too value some of what he (she or they) wrote. His ongoing choice to remain in hiding while impostors are are deceiving others in his name seems understandable because like you, or anyone else, he (as a singular human entity wandering somewhere on earth on his own) has the right to maintain a sense of personal privacy. Add into that the incentive of sales, as you mention, which the controversy has generated; one can only surmise that he is a human being, cowardly, as Mark Twain has observed, like the rest of us.

    Thank you, as always.

    1. All good points, Anatta.

      I covered the mechanism of placing one’s trust in a ‘teacher’ specifically because of the artificially created distance:

      https://enlightenmentmyth.com/2018/05/26/if-you-meet-the-buddha/

      In real physical life it is harder to pull off the trick of ‘guruism’. A person should possess some above average qualities: personal charisma, power of verbal persuasion, an ability to draw others into their specific energy field, high levels of knowledge, a way with words and so on.

      You said “he never claimed to be a guru.’

      Not quite.

      “Author, teacher and spiritual master Jed McKenna tells it like it’s never been told before. A true American original, Jed succeeds where countless others have failed by reducing this highest of attainments—spiritual enlightenment—to the simplest of terms.”

      This used to be on Wisefool Press website. He, just like our Kenneth, is quite ambiguous in the way he refers to a lot of things. A reluctant teacher in an accidental Mid-West ashram? Pleaaase.

      I wouldn’t call him a coward. Just someone who places his interests above all else. Even if it means folks getting caught in the web.

      I once paid money for a retreat. It was back in England. I think the couple who provided the service were seriously deluded themselves. Nice, but completely out to lunch. This was my first and last time when I paid for anything related to enlightenment search.

      Their meals were great though.

      As mentioned – I moved through all the stages with a neck-breaking speed, such was the level of inner desperation then.

  14. So I’ve read a bunch of articles on your website and I have absolutely zero idea who you think Jed McKenna is. You seem to end every article on a cliffhanger. Is this intentional?

    Are you ever going to simply come out and say who you think it is?

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