Toothless Spirituality Bites The Bullet

Outside of the world of birth…    unless you are selling, and Mr. Thich (or Nguyen, a common Vietnamese name) is certainly no slouch in the art of self promotion.

However, he is correct in that common spiritual Nirvana bullheadedly pursued by the hopefuls – is the furthest from Reality, and they are looking for something unreal. Not that he gives a fuck now that he’s sussed it all out. The chap has over a hundred books to his name.

A hundred!!

But in Reality, there are Hong Kong, Barcelona, Santiago, Quito, Baghdad, Cairo, Beirut, La Paz, London protests.

There is the fiasco of Brexit.

There are spastic bursts of the White House inhabitants and a carefully orchestrated pretense of their opponents. Well come on, they are pretending to be ‘good guys’, hoping to get the leg over, all as bad as one another.

There is a relentless expansion of China that has been quietly copying and replicating all things Western, except for the Western quasi-democratic rule (don’t get your knickers in a twist; I said ‘quasi’).

There is cyber espionage and demands for the blood of whistle blowers, and not just in the USA.

We live in interesting times where observing the world’s baddest crooks wrestling for power is the best soap opera one can hope to watch.

But spiritualists do not dare looking in that direction; it is too unpleasant, upsetting, depressing and too fucking… what’s the word I’m looking for?…. too real? Too DANGEROUS?

This is where people DO exist, and where they DO lose lives and livelihoods, and where the self DOES get trampled upon to the point where the individual feels like grabbing a Kalashnikov and erasing a few other selves out of existence, driven by the sheer sense of utter powerlessness in the face of it all. This is where people get murdered or locked up if they get too close to real Reality.

Real? You bet. Our toothless, world denying, ‘non-existent’ ‘no-self’ spiritual buddies have found the safest, most innocuous subject to expound on: enlightenment. In this game no one gets thrown in jail, no one gets gunned down, no one is impeached, no information gets blocked, no whistle blowers disturb the fragile status quo and no one leaks compromising materials (unless a guru sex scandal, but that’s lost its novelty value by now).

Whatcha gonna do, pound the baddies with the yoga mat? Choke them with the praying beads? Or perhaps, club them with all of eight Jed books?

Spirituality should be parked on the shelves next to kindergarten children’s books – for adult children to bury their noses and souls in. It’s a safe choice.

After all, this is exactly what they are attempting to escape – the gruesome world of Reality, right? Your ‘spirituality’ with all its bells and whistles, falls into the same category as video games, virtual reality gadgets, endless TV serials and even walks around the lake – a safe pretend world you’ve embraced to feel some degree of control in this unpredictable world.

So, while the bombs explode, the arms get traded, the kiddie fiddlers have their way, the shady political deals take place, the legitimate and illegal scams swindle the punters – spiritual ‘teachers’ can offer you a toothless grin, impotent in the face of the human survival machine and, as a result, not giving a fuck.

Give No Fucks

In the meantime… I am alive and working on putting together Jed’s life timeline or, rather, the timeline of his real earthly embodied incarnation (don’t get an idea that he is incarnated. Just an expression that means he has a body, duh). Just found his father’s photos. The collection keeps expanding.

The problem with this story is the following: the most interesting intricate details beyond still shots and silent documents are being slowly swallowed by Time and Death into the vortex of Eternity. The process is speeding up as Jed is getting older: those who knew his youthful self – are reluctant to talk, are dead or dying off. As a result, much has already been lost to history and will never be recovered. But I wanted to place a Wikipedia article, remember this intent of mine when I started this site?

Here is the thing…. I’ve come to kinda appreciate parts of the real person for his life path and certain modesty. Who, Jed??? yeah, Jed, that arrogant asshole of the books.. who is rather well-behaved and traditional in real life, even boringly so. And those who claim to know the details of his life.. until you went through a few thousand pages with a single intent to locate one word… you know nothing.

Unless you are married to him of course.

However.. Jed did practically nothing about indomitable Ken who, in contrast, has lead a colorfully risky life and pretty much has sealed his Teflon-like status.

Jed’s been a pussy in this particular instance, which I can use as a pathetic excuse to become a pussy myself. Can I???….

Oh wait… I already am!! OK then, I can use Jed’s pathetic nonchalance as an excuse to go all ape in this gorilla (guerrilla) spiritual warfare.

In other words… to bite the bullet and become a total dick.

P.S. I kinda screwed the settings on this website and have no time to fix any of it, as other things are a priority. Just wanted to say ‘hi’ and to go back to investigating, learning, breathing, living.

Be well, all.

Note: Jed, there are monetary dividends due to you going back years, from Iowa times. I am not kidding, you are due some money; it’s sitting unpaid. But my guess is you don’t need it now, not like in the days past.

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Kicking Minion

67 thoughts on “Toothless Spirituality Bites The Bullet

  1. Thanks for the post. It looks like in part you’re going after popular marketplace spirituality, so I’m with ya pulling the pants down on that bunch. But it’s also possible, speaking from experience, to both explore and discover the undeniable reality of “no self”/being as consciousness beyond this bird’s next of an identity, and have a deep sense of, even engagement with, the world, beautiful and horrible, with both enriching and enlivening elements (I can’t see anything but staggering beauty in the North Carolina mountain forests around me), while also recognizing the fucked up, psychopathic power players and soulless, hopelessly corrupt organizations, corporate and government. No need to throw the baby out with the bath on this matter. I’d say spiritual realizations have allowed a more critical eye of the dark underbelly of civilization.

    Having pondered over some hints in several of his books, I like your comments about Jed being kind of a “pussy”! Brings a chuckle. Looking forward to your expose’.

    Dan

    1. Dan, I am not going after popular market spirituality. I am going after a few of its representatives who played their cards right in this human game of smoke screen and manipulation. That’s more realistic.

      I’ve voiced that before – if Jed is not willing to be more active on the subject of those who impersonate him, then someone has to ‘interest’ him in the subject..

      … me thinks 🙂

      Spirituality is not needed to see a staggering beauty, right? I first saw the beauty when I was two years old (no exaggeration), and getting in touch with my real existing self only enhanced that.

      “I’d say spiritual realizations have allowed a more critical eye of the dark underbelly of civilization.” – Yes, without a doubt.

      The world is inherently dualistic, but it’s possible to take in all sides as one. That’s all there is to this mystical ONE. Life is black and while, one Circle and many gray shades in between, something that the yin-yang symbol does not depict.

      But truly.. I am not interested in the spiritual speak, that’s just way past me now. I am interested in what car Jed drives (I know now) and why he wears dark glasses on overcast days. Incidentally, Ken M. also wears dark glasses when out and about.

      I am also interested in past life events and interactions that had made Jed a hermit. I recognise a fellow recluse when I see one.

      In fact, plenty of us human beings are wired that way, but without Jed’s brilliantly created setup where one doesn’t have to be involved much in order to make a living.

      This is all Jed is about. Way back he set this as his goal. Just this.

      1. EM, I can’t compare what you experienced at 2 and my experience now. But in terms of seeing, feeling, knowing beauty on a staggering level, seeing through the imagined internal self (not “spirituality” as that’s a bit general) resulted in a remarkable improvement. There is no comparison between pre and post imagined self in terms of the experience of reality, beauty in this case, being far beyond anything I thought possible. So my experience is, there is a major difference.

        I can’t remember your take on why “enlightenment” is a myth to you as it’s been quire a while since I read your other posts. Are you dismissing all serious effort related transformed perspectives? If so do you have any alternative to such events?

        1. “There is no comparison between pre and post imagined self in terms of the experience of reality, beauty in this case” – That may be true for a vast majority of humans.

          I’d say the main reason is the following: initially people are preoccupied with ‘bettering’ their life circumstances, ie chasing careers, sex, potential life partners, material bling.. AND at the same time dealing with the psychological impact of whatever childhood traumas they had experienced.

          This is the battle with/for and the scaffolding of ‘self’, continuing for years and years.

          Most do not realise this is what they are doing. In such ‘pursuit of happiness’ it is practically impossible to stop and to take in beauty that exists outside of all human concerns, because the said human concerns take priority over everything. After all, one has to support own survival in this world.

          For me personally, however, the question of beauty and of noticing the world outside of the man-made aspects of it – has never been an issue. Own ‘Self’ was marginal and the ‘man-made’ had little interest or curiosity.

          Hence, I do not place the fact of noticing beauty into a special ‘category’ of post enlightenment artifacts.

          It sure can be different for you, but not because you got ‘enlightened’. it’s because you grew out of the kindergarten phase of human development, which seems to trap the majority forever. I think Jed made a reference to this one somewhere once.. like people’s psyche chrysalises by the age of puberty or some such.

          And that’s the crust of my opposition to the existing notion of enlightenment. And that is why I do oppose to the use of the term; I spoke about it before. It has a heavy load attached after a few millenia of emotional and mental masturbation.

          “Are you dismissing all serious effort related transformed perspectives?” –

          I dismiss the effort towards enlightenment, yes.

          I do not dismiss the effort towards understanding this world and Reality.

          This kind of effort does not include the words ‘enlightenment’, ‘guru’, ‘teacher’, ‘spiritual tradition’, ‘spiritual lineage’. There are no religious denominations (including Buddhism), Ramana, Niz or Jed in this effort. There are no dusty books, paid-for courses and drawling on about truth in crowded satsangs.

          If one truly wants to understand – they can gain understanding and clarity without the influence of others. It is exactly this collective influence of others that leads people to walk in circles.

          Can Clarity be obtained? Absolutely. Can it be obtained by absolutely everyone? Absolutely not.

          What does Clarity have to do with dusty musty worm-riddled enlightenment?

          If you believe you are enlightened – it’s fine with me. People believe worse things.

          1. Whoa, hold on there. You’re making a lot of assumptions about my perspectives here. I don’t care to weed through all of them, but a few points. This is all pretty condescending, and your general disdain is leaking out all over the place. Example, I never pushed the case for the term “enlightenment”, the history of it’s use, or referred to myself as “enlightened”. I just asked for a reminder of your perspective. I do see that there is much more to true understanding of reality than you’re suggesting, beyond Jed’s and it appears your framework of “human adulthood”. I get it, and it’s short sighted. I’ve read Jed’s stuff and am pretty familiar with the rationale for such a point. But it’s just opinion, not some gold leafed truth.

            I would just take one point of yours to counter, that of the influence of others only leading people to “walking in circles”. For one, it’s not clear or helpful to equate “influence” with “collective influence” of others. Maybe collective belief is just to “dumb brained” to be of much value. I’ll accept that generally speaking. Maybe the influence of others is unhelpful in many cases. But if you are saying in all cases, no, simply not my experience or true. It’s suspiciously pointing to something, some axe to grind, to take such a hard stand on dismissing the value of all those around you. Whether it’s Jed’s view or yours. Thinking independently is not the same as isolating ones self from influence. As if you could.

          2. “your general disdain is leaking out all over the place” – Good, you’ve noticed. Is that a bad thing?

            “You’re making a lot of assumptions about my perspectives here. I don’t care to weed through all of them”

            I do make assumptions, from what you wrote. Now, play nice; I weeded through your words and didn’t complain.

            Earlier you said this:

            “There is no comparison between pre and post imagined self in terms of the experience of reality”

            This could have been an assumption on my part, but if so…. would you mind telling me what that ‘pre’ and ‘post’ was? And how would you call this event that had lead to splitting your personal Reality to ‘pre’ and ‘post’?

            Give it a name, Dan, I would like to hear it, really.

            Collective belief is not ‘too dumb’ as you say. On the contrary. It is very clever and persuasive. If Aristotle writes about Plato, or Jed writes about Melville – it enters the collective consciousness. One thinker takes it from many others, a chain reaction that builds a body of ‘understanding’. If you, as an individual, allowed yourself to swallow these collective understandings indiscriminatorily – you have formed a belief that originated in the collective consciousness, from generation to generation.

            Whether these collective understandings are true and reflect Reality – is another question. For instance, the collective ‘understanding’ of God’s existence which belongs in the trash bin of human history.

            “it’s not clear or helpful to equate “influence” with “collective influence” of others. ”

            It is influence. Full stop. If you are of that persuasion that your mind is allowed to be influenced by another – sure, you are not alone. From my perspective and experience, anything not earned through own reflection – is inherently false, because this uncritically consumed mind content doesn’t belong to you, but belongs to another.

            I will make another assumption here and will say that you had been to a few of spiritual offerings, in whatever form they happened: listening to speakers, reading tons of books, satsangs, maybe even some TM to the mix. Perhaps for years. There is/was some teacher(s) in all that, maybe a few.

            True? False?

            To sum up:

            I asked you two questions in the above, I hope you will answer:

            1. “would you mind telling me what that ‘pre’ and ‘post’ was? And how would you call this event that had lead to splitting your personal Reality to ‘pre’ and ‘post’?

            Give it a name, Dan, I would like to hear it, really.”

            2. “you had been to a few of spiritual offerings, in whatever form they happened: listening to speakers, reading tons of books, satsangs, maybe even some TM to the mix. Perhaps for years. There is/was some teacher in all that, maybe a few.
            True? False?”

            P.S. Relax. I am not taking your livelihood away, am I?

        2. In other words… let’s stop calling it a mysterious and misleading term ‘enlightenment’. It hails from the times when people believed the Earth was flat.

          Clarity is rational and adult. It sees things as they are, not as what one wants to see. Enlightenment is antithesis to this, and it is reflected in the vast ethos of mythology around it.

          Enough already.

          1. Am I not playing nice? ; ) I’m not complaining, just hesitant to get too involved in exchange and weeding because it wasn’t clear if this was going to be a pissing contest, and wasn’t interested in that. An open exchange of ideas however is a different animal. So I’m game.

            The level of disdain seems a bit like a bad thing, yes. Like a sprinkler rather than a directed jet, so kinda lacking discrimination.

            “And how would you call this event that had lead to splitting your personal Reality to ‘pre’ and ‘post’?”

            I wouldn’t use a phrase like “split my reality”, more a shift in perspective. Let’s call the turning point a recognition of the “I” riding around in the body/mind as only a thought based construct, and a recognition of consciousness or awareness as clearly the ground of being what I am (so to speak). I can give it a name like “self realization” or “awakening”, or even “enlightenment”, but what does it matter as long as I know what the term refers to in my experience and you know that’s how I use it? In any case, gives you an idea how I might use those terms if it seemed helpful, which in this conversation I don’t think it would.

            “Collective belief or consciousness” Not sure there is such a thing, seems like label for something we can’t confirm, a single thing rather than loose category of varied things. Mine was a different point. I thought you were talking about more “social belief”, or “popular belief”, or some form of historical documentation, a massed collection and very relative in terms of overall accurate content. Really depends on the clarity of the contributor, which would be mixed. I don’t think either of us is swallowing anything indiscriminately, so at least in this conversation that point isn’t relevant as I see it.

            “Influence” reflection, etc.

            Don’t agree with your way of defining any of this. But key points: Seems completely unrealistic to suggest you are forming ideas without influence. You can’t wall off outside influence into your thinking, some placed there inadvertently, some collected intentionally because it came into the field of attention. It’s not a problem though because this process of influence does not exclude one’s “own reflection”. Which I would equate with testing what inevitable “influence of others” showers on you against your own experience and understanding. That’s just good critical thinking.

            And sure, I had contact with teachers and teachings, influenced by some of it and thankful for it, rejected most of what I heard or simply found it irrelevant, all in all a good process.

            And finally, I am relaxed darlin! And I work for a living, so you’re off on that point. I just happen to not agree with some of your conclusions about waking up, teachings, etc.

          2. “I just happen to not agree with some of your conclusions about waking up, teachings, etc.”

            You don’t say!! Why didn’t you state this clearly from your very first post so that I could categorically piss on everything you say from the start? That would make our dialogue so much more engaging!

            “I work for a living, so you’re off on that point.”

            Hmm… I wasn’t accusing you of being a spiritual teacher if that’s what you mean. It was said to emphasize that this conversation will not affect either your or mine mode of existence and should be perceived as such.

            “a recognition of the “I” riding around in the body/mind as only a thought based construct, and a recognition of consciousness or awareness as clearly the ground of being what I am”

            Not playing :/ Like… at all.

            Here is why. You are operating on the level of borrowed collective consciousness I mentioned and which, according to you , only ‘seems like label for something we can’t confirm’ (your words).

            But it is not a label. ‘Consciousness as the ground of being’ (your words again) is that collective consciousness CONCEPT that keeps being repeated again and again by those who think they have attained something. It’s been going round in spiritual circles and it smells like… cum.

            If I were to ask you to tell me what consciousness is – you would swallow your tongue. Because it is entirely possible to have no consciousness, and yet still be (aka exist). Did this possibility ever occur to you? Where would this leave your collectively disseminated expression of consciousness as the ground of being?

            AND… *drumroll!!*… here it comes….. ” I can give it a name like “self realization” or “awakening”, or even “enlightenment” (your words)..

            Bullshit. You are not ‘enlightened’ and neither am I. And neither is Jed or Ramana or Niz or the fucking Buddha. If you think otherwise, you just bought yourself another lemon, this time a spiritual one.

            For your information… those mentioned above didn’t think enlightenment was real either. Here:

            https://enlightenmentmyth.com/2018/07/24/niz-lin-jed-on-enlightenment-absence/

            Being acquainted with the notions, works, ideas of others can certainly add fuel to one’s thinking, I agree. However, the thinking process and its fruits, so to speak, remain independent of any such ideas. I know it is not easy to explain. Before I learned about Plato’s cave -I had already arrived at a similar description, by way of personal experience (quite unpleasant I must say) and own reflection on that as a result.

            This is why I do not accept much of what Jed says, even though I connected the dots while reading his first book, and even though I recognise him as a rational and clear thinking individual. I don’t accept it because I see where and how he decided (it was a conscious decision on his part) to include some of the bs in his books. I understand the process.

            The dots got connected because most of what he mentioned had already been processed by me independently, thought about, looked at, rejected in most cases. I rejected pretty much everything that I read about spirituality and its postulates, and I didn’t read that much.

            Now… you said “That’s just good critical thinking. ”

            Stick with that. I certainly will, and so that you know.. I am very allergic to all editions of ‘Dictionary Of Common Spiritual Definitions’.

            Burn the shit, starting with ‘consciousness as the ground of being’.

    2. And… many people struggled trying to figure out what my position is towards Jed (god knows why that’s important). Sometimes I jump him and sometimes I near praise him, right?

      That’s because it’s both, depending on the context. Overall, he still lies. But the way he organised his lies is brilliant.

  2. I’m just wondering have you read Anthony demellos book Awarness and what your opinion is on it?
    when I first read it,it made me uncomfortable because of the harsh truths in it,I denied them for a while but as time went by I realized he was right! And eventually became reasonably ok with them!
    Helped me a lot!

    1. No, I haven’t. The enlightenment gig is over for me, no questions left at all, and if there were.. I’d go figure it out myself without books.

      But.. no questions other than of practical nature and things of specific interest to me.

      Say… did you go to uni in the States? Is it possible to change fraternity houses at will? Is one a member for life once joined, or does it last only while one is a student?

      1. See… when it comes to giving something back, in the simple form of information mind you, not time and money…., there is no response.

        Yet.. the biggest number of visitors to this site are Americans.

        I wonder where the disdain comes from.

        It could be also that American graduates are an intelligent lot and are more concerned with the real life issues and are therefore absent from this site lol…

        Love it.

        1. I can’t answer that, but can you tell me a little more about what help you need with the site? I don’t know much honestly, but I could give it a try. No guarantee I will be able to fix it though.

          1. Thank you, P. I will wait on it for the time being, as I am not sure if the sites needs to be developed.

            I may let it die. But thank you for the offer, it is much appreciated, and if there is a change in my plans I will definitely consider your kind gift.

      2. Hey Tano,

        Not in a frat but rushed (met plenty of kids and considered joining) in my freshman year.

        Currently go to a large state school in the South. Most people do NOT change fraternities, although it is very possible, and easy, to leave one. Changing frats, depending on the school and its size may be seen as a social faux pas. In bigger schools I see it happening, but only rarely. I haven’t seen it happen but don’t think it is against the rules.

        Fraternities and sororities are national organizations, so in a way, yes, one is a member for life. The committees/organizations may be headed by grown men who make decisions on budget allocation, construction of houses, etc. The connection to the scene, however, usually ends after graduation (where one becomes an ‘adult’ and moves on with life). Unless one is Van Wilder.

        Hope this helps. Take care

      3. Hi EM,
        I just happened to get on your site today to see what’s new and saw your question. I can’t answer about changing fraternity houses at will, however, yes you are a member once joined. It does not last only while one is a student.

    1. It is not that I want to.

      Firstly, it is who I am by nature. Someone once said ‘self-contained’, which is true in a sense that I don’t need other people to feel content. I could say the same for Jed, but with one proviso.. he is married. So strictly speaking he is not a total recluse as he shares his company with another human being.

      Secondly, this natural tendency for self-containment is exacerbated by desire to stay away from humans because humans are the ones who bring all sorts of shite to one’s doorstep.

      Passion is required only for creative endeavours. Problem solving requires a cool rational head. There are very few people out there adult enough to be neutral in the way they deal with things. That’s why we have so many problems and not enough problem solving, haha!

      I want to be clear that being reclusive doesn’t mean no contact with anyone. It simply means limiting such contact to only the necessary. For instance, I work for a living and so have a lot of human contact, but outside of work – I am not interested and prefer not to engage. The same would go for Jed in that he has to avail himself to the publishing side of things to some degree.

      Also, of course if one finds some forms of entertainment in the man-made world (Jed’s skydiving for instance), it would make it necessary to have contact.

    2. I would also add that creative aspect of Reality REQUIRES human cooperation.

      People think of creativity as a personal pursuit. But let’s say Jed’s books would not come into being if there were no people to support this project. Anything ever created in the man-made world – was created by groups of people.

      But groups of people often squabble. That makes them irresponsible and untrustworthy. Many simply end up in protracted law suits.
      The reason why Jed’s enterprise is working is because the Jed team is minuscule. Tiny.

      In the same way… this website will never take off in terms of delivering anything of (dubious) value, because there are no people who offer any practical support, and I cannot afford to devote it all my attention.

      Result? It’ll die.

  3. EM,

    Interesting logic you have, what ever you disagree with from another you can just call information from the collective consciousness. Then dismiss it. Sorry, bullshit right back at ya.

    “If I were to ask you to tell me what consciousness is – you would swallow your tongue. Because it is entirely possible to have no consciousness, and yet still be (aka exist). Did this possibility ever occur to you?”

    Sure, having no consciousness occurred to me, until I actually looked at the evidence. This on line commenting back and forth is unworthy of serious discussion about that topic though. That’s something to do in person. (I think you’d be a lot less confident with your sweeping statements making eye contact and getting some push back face to face.) The real remarkable thing is that you have convinced yourself consciousness doesn’t exist! How much do you have to miss to believe that?

    Look, I’m sure you do this kind of steam roll arguing all the time on line and it satisfies some need or sense of importance, but it seems pretty pointless from here. It really makes no difference if you disagree with what I’m saying. I can see there is something very skewed about your perspectives. But your not listening, and you clearly need to believe you have it all figured out. So good luck with that.

    1. Hi dkelsol (and Tano),
      I’ve really enjoyed reading your comments back and forth. Your reactions to what Tano wrote are very understandable. She often makes a lot of assumptions based on what people write. But, it’s intereseting because they seem very deliberate to me. Also, she is very very careful in picking and choosing her words. And anytime people use words that they have not chosen very carefully, or words like ‘consciousness’, that have a very ambiguous meaning, she calls them out on it. She said a few comments back that she came up with a plato cave like analogy before she read about the one from plato. And that is, I think what is very important to her. That you come to your own conclusions. So, had you never heard about the word ‘consciousness’, would that word, and the meaning it has for you, still be important for you? Or is it that you read about it and adopted it that way? That could be fine as well, but I think it seems to Tano like you just adopted the word without really looking into it’s meaning, without understanding it for yourself.

      Reading back what I wrote, I think it could come across as me defending her. I’m not. This type of interaction between Tano and someone else has happened before, with Tano making assumptions and the other person feeling like she is just stonewalling them. I am just interested to see if you can look a bit further into this discussion to see where she is coming from. And I think that Tano is very direct in her communication which can put people off from doing so, from looking a bit deeper.

      Also, this is just something that’s interesting to me. Your (Tano) assumptions are so deliberate. It’s like you know, with a high degree of accuracy, where the other person is coming from. The way in which someone communicates seems to tell you a lot about that person. I don’t see what you see, not as clearly at least, but I kind of link the assumptions to some of the things people say. I guess that making inferences about someone based on what they write just comes naturally as a result of being so clear on things as you seem to be.

      1. Hi K.

        It is impossible to communicate with anyone without making assumptions of some kind. Assumptions are made based on what people write, you are correct. If people write in ways that are not clear, or the content is way above their general level of understanding – it often leads to misinterpretation and, subsequently, (for adult children) to feeling aggrieved.

        I hope Dan can overcome his disdain for what I had to say, and yes, you are correct in that if one does not adhere to cultural norms of serving everything in a pleasant package, it ruffles feathers.

        I tend to have the same reputation in physical life, but get away with it somehow. I can tell you it has not always been the case. I used to be silent on the subject of my and others’ perceptions, until I grew up in my head.

      2. “she is very very careful in picking and choosing her words.” – Mostly. I do try to be as careful as possible, in order to convey exactly what I mean.

        I don’t always get it right though, and often people also misinterpret. But yes, I do call people out if I see them using words, concepts, ideas without true understanding of those.

        People often throw fancy expressions, but once I start digging – they do not understand themselves what exactly they meant.

      3. Hi Kutkatt,

        I really don’t have an issue with being challenged to take a point deeper, be clearer, etc. I actually enjoy that process. Even get a heated argument going, no problem. Also long as there is some openness on each end and we’re having a healthy exchange. With Tano it’s simply not worth all the effort to deal with the secondary pile of rigid ideology, wrong assumptions/interpretations and digs just to have an exchange. This seems obvious that it’s a waste of time, not an efficient use of energy in a conversation, etc. I get the sense you find it helpful to discuss things with her, and apparently you admire her “skill” and are trying to practice some form of it yourself. I just don’t see the same value there.

        I appreciate you asking me this question, so will try to answer the best I can.

        “So, had you never heard about the word ‘consciousness’, would that word, and the meaning it has for you, still be important for you? Or is it that you read about it and adopted it that way?”

        I’d like to know if you really buy this assumption, that people just swallow some ideas handed to them and act like it’s truth? Is that the experience with people you know?

        I certainly didn’t just read about consciousness and adopt it that way, pretty much the opposite of my approach. That’s pointless and I just don’t do things that way. My approach to understanding things is to explore life experientially, basically on a perceptual level, just what I sense here and now. Events, phenomena, relationships, energy forms, what ever. Understanding/language is built on that. So the meaning is coming from the experience, not some assumed definition I’m trying to validate. I use the words available to explain what I experience. Awareness or consciousness are really just the best words on hand to use for a particular experience I know directly.

        I also tend to exercise the option of using a term beyond the customary definition and explaining to the person I’m talking to just how I’m using it, which I tried to explain to Tano. Then, working with your interpretation, we can find the best middle ground of understanding, so it becomes a term you and I can use with a definition specific to us. My point in having a conversation with someone is to enjoy coming to a common understanding, and exchange as best as possible given the relative nature of words or meaning of language. Not to bully them into submitting to my definition of terms. What would be the point of that except perhaps to inflate my self perception. I really don’t care about that. If you want to discuss anything further I’m happy to, but probably here is not the place. You can try through the contact form at simplythisawareness@wordpress.com. If not, good luck friend!

        Tano: This is certainly not my preferred way of exchanging with someone, but you don’t seem to allow anything else. Your self serving comments to my last response to you simply prove my point: It’s about you being right, not having a productive exchange. I don’t have a problem with our idealogical disagreement. It’s not what you are saying, it’s the dysfunctional way you attempt to “discuss” things. Try not to keep misrepresenting my issue.

        And really, don’t get all butt hurt because I don’t bow down to your self proclaimed superior intelligence and tolerate your toxic manner of speaking. Grow up, you are certainly not the adult here. I’m sure you will want to get the last word in, have at it. ; )

        1. Well, here is one ‘you’ for you… you cannot see just how aggressive you are. I asked you valid questions. Instead… see below.

          …you don’t seem to allow anything else
          …Your self serving comments
          … It’s about you being right
          …it’s the dysfunctional way you attempt to “discuss” things
          …Try not to keep misrepresenting my issue.
          …don’t get all butt hurt
          …your self proclaimed superior intelligence
          …tolerate your toxic manner of speaking
          … Grow up
          …you are certainly not the adult here

          In two short paragraphs.

          Hate can be expressed in many different ways.

        2. Hi dkelsol,

          Appreciate the lengthy reply.

          “I’d like to know if you really buy this assumption, that people just swallow some ideas handed to them and act like it’s truth? Is that the experience with people you know?”

          A few weeks back I spoke with a girl from school who was really into ‘frequencies’ and things like that, some pseudoscience crap. And I got the sense that she just found those ideas very comforting. And that is, I think, a major reason why some people go so deep into the ‘spirituality’-hole. It gives them some hope, or comfort.

          But yea, that’s not to say that that is what you’re doing, not at all. I don’t know, it’s possible. But that’s just to answer your question.

          ” I get the sense you find it helpful to discuss things with her, and apparently you admire her “skill” and are trying to practice some form of it yourself.”

          Yea, I do find it helpful. I like her very direct way of communicating, and how she tries to be very clear in her words, and it’s interesting to see how people react to that. That’s what I’m aware of as a reason for coming here. But I think there’s more to why I visit the site that I’m not aware of yet.

          Just to share a bit more about myself.
          “dealing with the psychological impact of whatever childhood traumas they had experienced.” (copied from Tano’s post)
          That’s what I’m dealing with at the moment. And lately more specifically, I’m aware of how I’m not a ‘man’. I’m a man in the literal sense, but that part of myself in the behavioural sense is locked up. I’m always holding back. Tough to explain, but I hope this somewhat communicates what I mean.

          Also, appreciate you sharing your emailaddress. I have no interest in discussing anything further, I don’t know what we would discuss honestly. We could talk about consciousness I guess, but that is not something I’m interested in. Good luck to you, as well!

          1. Just to butt in… I don’t think Dan is coming back. He wanted to converse as an ‘enlightened being’ to an ‘enlightened being’ so to speak, and I cut him short.

            No validation you see… somehow that always affects people.

            You said ‘tough to explain’, on the subject of man-ness.. there’s plenty of man in you. It takes balls to look for the real man in oneself.

            Just a word of warning… gorilllas out there think they are ‘real men’ because they’ve got money, guns and hoes. That’s the commonly accepted paradigm of manhood. If you choose another way, the way of a self-sustained man… you will stick out like a sore thumb.

            It may work in your favour (depends on vatious circumstances), but it may also destroy you. Paradigms often clash.

          2. ” I don’t think Dan is coming back” Haha, it’s becoming a pattern, I’ve noticed quite a few interactions on here like that.

            ‘It takes balls to look for the real man in oneself.’ Yes, that’s true. Thanks.

            ‘money, guns and hoes’ Yea, I see what you mean. Definitely not what my idea of a man is.

            So a clash between the commonly accepted paradigm and the way of a self-sustained man. What do you mean with a self-sustained man? I have no idea what that means.

          3. “it’s becoming a pattern”

            Haha, that’s nothing compared to some interactions I had two years ago when I just started the website. Then I was considered mentally ill, a liar, a psycho, a wannabee, blah blah blah endlessly.

            Who cares.

            “Self-sustained”

            A man who has his own mind. Jed McKenna expressed it as “I do not defer”. One is not looking to others for any answers. Which is exactly how it becomes – no one can influence such person’s thinking, decisions, actions.

            Which in REAL terms means potential conflict with others. I mean.. even here in this tiny patch of internet virtual estate clashes are evident.

            In case of Jed for instance… his genius is not in the book message, not at all. His genius is in organising his life (very deliberately I must say, much thought went into it) in such a way that it has removed the need for pack dependency. He doesn’t HAVE to defer on a daily basis.

            Jed aside… The real man is the ideal that exists in movies. Keep that in mind. While you can move closer to it – you cannot become it 100%. You simply will not survive.

            Like wolves humans live in packs, have hierarchies, appease (lick lol) one another, bargain for supplies depending on status, have caste systems.

            The lone wolf (the one who does not defer) is extremely uncommon.

    2. ” This on line commenting back and forth is unworthy of serious discussion about that topic though. ” – It was worth it to you until I disagreed, right? Stop being unconscious of your own motivation.

      “”you’d be a lot less confident with your sweeping statements making eye contact and getting some push back face to face””

      Here is from the ONLY person who met me in real life after this website inception, and whom I disagreed with on pretty much everything. But he is a gentleman regardless of disagreements:

      “bear in mind, I may be the only one involved who has actually met her. I found her to be very strong-willed, and very self-confident of the rightness of her opinions and viewpoints. I may be wrong, but my impression of her is that what her EnMyth page says, accurately reflects her current honest thoughts and feelings on the matter. She’s not playing, but serious.”

      I know what I know and there is no ambiguity in that. If, in your eyes, it makes me ‘steamrolling’.. so what? Here is the hanky. The more aggravated you feel the more I will aggravate you, because there is no good intent in why you are communicating here, and the masks eventually fly off. I will reflect to you exactly who and what you are.

      Now, get back to the valid points instead of personal attacks. Here is what you said:

      “Sure, having no consciousness occurred to me, until I actually looked at the evidence. ”

      You made ‘having no consciousness’ phrase, taken out of the context of the entire sentence, to be my claim that consciousness does not exist as evident from these words “The real remarkable thing is that you have convinced yourself consciousness doesn’t exist!” – your words.

      This is an incorrect assumption on your part. Consciousness exists as a phenomenon. This phenomenon is not continuous though. Do you understand what that means?

      For instance… do rocks have consciousness? But do they exist (are)? What is MORE…. can you think of situations, real situations in life when humans ARE (be, exist), but lack consciousness?

      Then you proceeded to slag me off IN GENERAL without getting to the depth of the argument. So, Mr. Jumping Jack….. You jump. No depth, no substance, no true understanding, only emotional reactions fueled by your own lack of comprehension. Then you blame me for this, by way of:

      “I’m sure you do this kind of steam roll arguing all the time on line and it satisfies some need or sense of importance, but it seems pretty pointless from here. It really makes no difference if you disagree with what I’m saying. I can see there is something very skewed about your perspectives. But your not listening, and you clearly need to believe you have it all figured out. So good luck with that.”

      GIVE ME SOMETHING REAL DAMN IT!! Address the points if you don’t agree with the points I am making, instead of getting all offended.

      So.. back to that disdain leaking out of me (your words).. I wonder why.

  4. When no one can provide a working definition of what it is or a practical, applicable path towards how one attains it, its a fucking unicorn..

    1. And i guess the only real problem with that is that its an enormous waste of time and energy that could be better directed towards serious matters such as developing desired traits and skills that are useful in real life.

      For instance, when i first dove into the study of various philosophies i found eckhart tolle and really resonated with his message “the power of now” because it emphasized presence. Now theres something real and tangible.

      Fast forward, (what 5 years?) and the search for “enlightenment”has lead me through hundreds of belief systems and philosophies that have no use outside the realm of imagination. Now thats a real bitch.

      The only take away is that you (I) learn(ed) to more more skeptical and to truly put things under the microscope of scrutiny rather than taking things at face value. Is it real, immediate, here now, practical, useful, experiential or just a really nice story.

      1. There is nothing there I disagree with, J. Certainly, from my experience the mind gained an ability to critically question. Once that happens, the answers appear.

        You said:

        “Is it real, immediate, here now, practical, useful, experiential or just a really nice story.”

        This is true, but keep in mind that for many people life is really hard from that experiential point of view. Stories and fantasies appear as a result, in order to cope with harsh realities. Somehow they make living more exciting and bearable, easier.

        But of course in the history of humanity there has NEVER been a time like now where stories are taking over the world, with the advent of TV and other media.

        Imagine the life before TV. Now, imagine the life before even books when they were a luxury.. that was only 500 years ago.

        Stores (religion, human relationships, history, FB and on and on) are the means of escape, even when most people do not consciously realise that.

        1. You said that spirituality should be parked in the childrens section or something along those lines. I wanted to share a section of a book im reading, “the laws of human nature” by Robert Greene. Its really quite good. This section in particular is about grandiosity but i just found it uncanny the similarities between what you said.

          In our first months, most of us bonded completely with our mother. We had no sense of a separate identity. She met our every need. We came to believe that the breast that gave us food was actually a part of ourselves. We were omnipotent—all we had to do was feel hungry or feel any need, and the mother was there to meet it, as if we had magical powers to control her. But then, slowly, we had to go through a second phase of life in which we were forced to confront the reality—our mother was a separate being who had other people to attend to. We were not omnipotent but rather weak, quite small, and dependent. This realization was painful and the source of much of our acting out—we had a deep need to assert ourselves, to show we were not so helpless, and to fantasize about powers we did not possess. (Children will often imagine the ability to see through walls, to fly, or to read people’s minds, and that is why they are drawn to stories of superheroes.) As we get older, we may not be physically small anymore, but our sense of insignificance only gets worse. We come to realize we are one person not just in a larger family, school, or city but in an entire globe filled with billions of people. Our lives are relatively short. We have limited skills and brainpower. There is so much we cannot control, particularly with our careers and global trends. The idea that we will die and be quickly forgotten, swallowed up in eternity, is quite intolerable. We want to feel significant in some way, to protest against our natural smallness, to expand our sense of self. What we experienced at the age of three or four unconsciously haunts us our entire lives. We alternate between moments of sensing our smallness and trying to deny it. This makes us prone to finding ways to imagine our superiority.

          1. “In the past, we humans were able to channel our grandiose needs into religion. In ancient times, our sense of smallness was not just something bred into us by the many years we spent dependent on our parents; it also came from our weakness in relation to the hostile powers in nature. Gods and spirits represented these elemental powers of nature that dwarfed our own. By worshipping them we could gain their protection. Connected to something much larger than ourselves, we felt enlarged. After all, the gods or God cared about the fate of our tribe or city; they cared about our individual soul, a sign of our own significance. We did not merely die and disappear.”

          2. Just some parallels there between what we’re talking about, what youd said and childhood that i wanted to share with you.

            Anyways, its Thanksgiving holiday here in the states and well…as always, grateful for you and this platform from time to time. Take care of yourself out there.

          3. “We have limited skills and brainpower.” – I’ve always known that about myself. It is very true.

            “The idea that we will die and be quickly forgotten, swallowed up in eternity, is quite intolerable” – This is what sent Ramana into the mental lock when he stopped being able to take care of himself. He seemed to have been an impressionable chap.

            “What we experienced at the age of three or four unconsciously haunts us our entire lives.” – It is entirely possible to break this cycle and leave the past to be the past. I generally tended not to dwell on things anyway.

            “finding ways to imagine our superiority.” – haha! that is such a male statement! I don’t want to divide anything on the lines of sex, but Mother Nature did this for us already. With seven times more testosterone sure…. for guys a need to feel an alpha is that much amplified. I personally couldn’t give a shit whether I am perceived superior or inferior. They are surface appearances.

            Thanks, J.

          4. “In the past, we humans were able to channel our grandiose needs into religion. ” – Yes, sure. Religion is a way of replacing the carer’s figure (mum or dad or whoever took care of us at childhood).

            ‘There’s someone who cares about you – God’, they say. Why not just accept things as they are? We are small and insignificant, and no one really cares, but we are significant to ourselves and so should make the best of us.

            You know… just because I never wrote any books and I am a female, people tend to put down whatever I am saying among these web pages. It is no surprise that many females chose to use male pseudonyms when writing, especially if the writing was on lofty subjects, such as this one. As a female one is expected to write about universal love and some such nonsense. It is annoying.

            But if anyone really looked into all that I have said so far… it is on the same level of understanding as the greatest thinkers of humanity. Just that I don’t have a burning ambition to sell my thoughts or shout to as big an audience as possible about them.

            My thoughts come free and therefore – cheap, hehe.

            In order to value something people need to pay for it.
            Fuck them all.

            P.S. ‘Jed’ has blue eyes, fans.

          5. All in all, I guess what i was getting to was that I concur that what passes for “spirituality” being somewhat of a childish fantasy. I found it interesting as well what Greene had to say on the matter and how he relates following religions to a sense of insignificance that follows us into adulthood. The more you visit with spiritual folks the more this kinda reveals itself just how out of touch with reality it is. Reflecting on my own indulgence in the topic, it most certainly started as some narcissistic ploy to become godlike or “enlightened.” Then it spun into something else when encountering jed/non duality.

            Things picked back up at platos… Im always yearning to discuss philosophies and explore other people’s minds but i can help but feel like those gentlemen are totally…FAKE. Having made one practical down to earth statement in a reply regarding “purpose” the replies were something like “i dont see a reality in which i should exist.” ” fun is an illusion of the I” and “blah blah…its just so damn delusional. I just cant actually believe that i used to carry on in conversation pretending to understand what the hell people like that are talking about.

            There’s just something that seriously bothers me about the inauthenticity of it all. I mean I have no need to project some false sense of enlightenment or a being beyond the nature of duality. Im just simply a human, working towards a better understanding of what that means. I haven’t asked you since you left but what are your thoughts on that? I have no plans to post there ever again. Between IGF and small factions like that It just seems dangerously delusional and having the pull of a group makes it all the more psychotic.

            Idk, its really none of my business what other people believe in. Im just totally shocked to read material like that coming from grown men that at one point i valued their input…im just simply left shaking my head like what the fuck? I mean, i guess one one hand i really don’t care. I just expect adults to know better. As a young man, you expect to be able to look to the elders for guidance. But youd be hard pressed to find any pragmatism in this field and unfortunately it doesn’t get a whole lot better outside of it.

            Truth, honesty, authenticity and integrity are a rare find.

  5. My mind has been here for 35 years. My body (in different forms) much much longer.
    So when my mind tells me “If things get really bad I can always kill myself” and my body responds with a feeling of despair and a quiet “It doesn’t work”, which one should I listen to?

    What can mind know about death, God, ANYTHING?

    I’m about 10 years old. I’m in a church, having a little moment of clarity. I’m watching my friends’ parents. Grown-up, serious people bowing to an invisible entity. What a joke.
    But I’m also ignoring the sense of longing the thought of God brings to the surface. And will be ignoring it for years. Then trying to fulfill it from outside. It won’t work.

    Eventually I don’t have a choice but to listen (and FEEL). I give her my Presence and she starts to open herself up to me. She gives me her longing, confusion, emotionality, rage, fears, pain, tears. And reveals her wisdom and power.
    On one end I feel as if all hell broke loose, but on the other there is more and more peace, love, tenderness and compassion. I’m crying all night because I just realized: “I am the one I was looking for”.

    Without her I’m just Awareness, I’m Nothing. With her I’m God. Through her I can know myself.
    Without him I can be pretty damn crazy and destructive. Without him I am the slave of the mind which doesn’t bloody know what to do with me!

    If we exclude either the feminine (body) or the masculine (awareness) from the equation then no wonder the idea of losing one’s mind sounds like a recipe for disaster..

    1. This is what I once wrote on the IGF in my short stint there:

      “Fear is an interesting subject.

      Existential Fear of perishability. But my problem is that there are two mutually exclusive compulsions within when the Fear enters. One says ‘Die (physically), now, here. Just go.’ Another says ‘No, no, live. Go on!’

      Both are valid.”

      So which one? After much to and fro.. I settled on ‘Go on!’. What’s for you? I don’t know, Joanna, it’s up to you to see and decide. But I’ve known a couple of people who tried and failed to kill themselves. Both regretted the attempt after the event. Perhaps they needed it to clearly see the absolute finality of death and got second wind, an impetus to live.

      Maybe you are learning to love yourself, because without you – there is nothing.

      The human body runs on both ‘male’ and ‘female’ hormones and needs both to function. There is time for a fight and there is time for surrender.

      I still find your expression bordering on the lines of mysticism; this doesn’t sit comfortably with me, as I consider ‘mystics’ as people who daydream and then attempt to place their fantasies in word format. It confuses and mesmerizes the general folks in equal measure, hence centuries of mental fog.

      Rumi comes to mind.

  6. @j(

    Remember this:
    https://enlightenmentmyth.com/2018/12/28/a-quick-note-ii-to-justin/

    I wrote this to you when stuck in Vietnam 😀

    You said “The more you visit with spiritual folks the more this kinda reveals itself just how out of touch with reality it is. ”

    I left two years ago for the reasons you have become acutely aware of now. The guys are a good bunch, but are pushing the same cart as most older folks who got up the mountain and somehow forgot to come down.

    The strange thing is that they DO live their lives as ordinary as it comes, and they DO enjoy things as anyone would, and they DO have moments of awe and despair and boredom and happiness… and they DO mention it all..

    …. but then, in some weird inexplicable way – they dismiss it all as second-hand insignificant experiences, when, in Reality, these are the ONLY experiences a human being will ever have and so should value the hell out of them.

    This dismissal is fake. It places the myth of own ‘attainment’ above anything else, as if it is the most important thing in the world, while in Reality… it has been nothing at all.

    I prolly need to attach some kind of discussion place to this website, for those who are interested in understanding the phenomena of this Reality, instead of talking about conceptual Reality?

    The funny thing is… this is exactly what I’m doing at the mo – I am in the MA programme, and that is all about the conceptual shit, up to one’s third eyeball lol

    Can get quite annoying, but I figure… to understand the illusion better one has to learn to speak its language.

    1. I do remember that and thank you. What an experience it probably was being stuck in Vietnam lol. Why would anyone want to substitute that for some fairytale ill never know…just had the little girls first birthday yesterday. Now those are moments to live for! Cake everywhere!!!

      “I prolly need to attach some kind of discussion place to this website, for those who are interested in understanding the phenomena of this Reality, instead of talking about conceptual Reality?”

      Thats definitely not your responsibility. I need to grapple with my own need for…whatever that is, ill need a closer look. Getting out there and just dealing with regular day to day life. Chopping w..hoa…..Experience trumps all. The issue is i have little patience for people. There seems to be no middle ground for me. One hand i visit with folks that have all these lofty ideas and on the other with people that are so petty and caught up in dramas that i just avoid them if possible. Its whatever. Cant have your cake and eat it too. Feeling lonely from time to time is just a consequence of keeping a small circle id guess.

      Im not sure what the MA program is. Whatever interests you….I do the conceptual thing too. Imagination has its uses. Mostly in the creative process. I just try to keep grounded as well. My mind at the moment likened this whole experience to the end of that movie “the beach” which i think we talked about before where hes come back to the real world and is kinda reflecting on the whole experience….

      Anyhow, it helps to just, um, get it out of my system. Writing is a great tool and the exploration of these topics has its value in deciphering truth. The key for me is to use the opportunity rather than the other way around. Not allowing it to be an impediment to the actual experience of life. Being keen on taking whats useful and discarding the rest….the trash needs taken out at the moment.

      Land Ho!

      G’day M’lady

      1. Perhaps, as species we are wired to express selves in whatever manner fit, including conversation. You said this:

        “Being keen on taking whats useful and discarding the rest”
        I thought about taking the idea of usefulness further: think of the focused intent when every move is directed towards some discernible set purpose.. and I fell asleep.

        Maybe there are humans out there who can function in this somewhat robotic manner of subduing every natural inclination in favour of some targeted destination.. become the greatest this and that, or acquiring this and that, or appearing this and that.. but I am not one of those people.

        I’m not saying it’s good or bad, just that I am not that.

        I never feel lonely now. Years and years back when I just started asking questions there was this excruciating sense of loneliness.. I figured that was because I knew no one who was asking the same questions, and so it felt like being the only human on planet earth.

        Once everything becomes blindly clear (I say ‘blindly’ because it can hurt psychologically for some time).. then the sense of loneliness goes, never to return. At least this is my experience.

        I also thought why it never returns. I came to the conclusion that seeing the bigger picture of existence makes it so. While in the beginning this vast gaping hole of Eternity was scary as hell – now it has become the comfort zone. Eventually everything gets swallowed into nothingness, what’s to be lonely about? I feel my own insignificance in the face of it all so acutely and so strongly that nothing matters against this backdrop.

        Visually.. imagine standing on the edge of the Grand Canyon (never did, hope I will).. how tiny one is compared to that.

        I know the above are mere words; they are trying to express the internal states or feelings that really have no consensus definitions out there due to their highly subjective nature, hence it may sound mysterious etc, but really.. it is not.

        I wish you and your family to thrive, J. Your girls are lucky. When I was young there were never any adults around, and no one to show me the world, no one with a spark of true consciousness in them. I had to find out the hard way, like most of us do.

        1. Lol its not so robotic. As i see it having purpose is as simple as setting intent and periodically bringing awareness to it as a way of course correction. No matter we’ve agreed to disagree on that topic before….im not trying to be the best at anything other than being sure that im bringing the best version of myself to the table consistently.

          The loneliness thing usually comes and goes pretty quickly. Ive come to terms with it being a side effect of somewhat being a recluse and preferring my own space to the need for company.

          Death awareness spurs me every day. I hope you get to do all the things you want to. To have all the experiences you yearn for. I’d hope that for every human being. There is so much time and energy that goes into creating and maintaining a human life that i can’t fathom why anyone would want to waste it. Im actually quite sad for the younger generation. The screen people. (Now im sounding like an old fart, great…).

          Anyways, i get what your saying about the vastness of it all. Ive often contemplated this when im stuck on some “problem” but its nice to keep in mind in general as a way to not get so sucked in that I lose perspective. In my short 30 years ive had one hell of a run, a diversity of experiences and met some really amazing people…. You happen to be one of them. You’re an enigma. Ive been fascinated with your mind since our first encounter and you’ve been utterly patient with my relative youth ignorance. But im gaining understanding all the time and you’ve also contributed to that. Behind that edgy personality you’re sincerely a good person. I appreciate you. Its been my absolute pleasure.

          1. “Feeling lonely from time to time is just a consequence of keeping a small circle id guess.”

            And here you have disrespect for the feminine in action. She calls you to herself using the feeling of loneliness, and then the mind comes for the “rescue” and points you outside “it’s not me it’s them”.
            We all do that, automatically basically, we don’t even stop and think how insane it is!
            We say “I feel lonely, I’m gonna call a friend” but what we are actually saying is “I’ve abandoned myself, and now I’m gonna use another human being to distract myself from the consequences”.
            We disconnect ourselves from our bodies and consequently from the world (where is the line between “my body” and “the world”?)
            And then with this attitude we go to spirituality. And we wonder why nothing works!

            To see through all those mind tricks is what surrendering the ego is all about. It is not only about diving into the void, seeing that “I’m not my thoughts, feelings… whatever I can perceive I am not it, got it, done, now what?” It is so much more practical than that.

            Right now it “comes and goes” you say. One day it will come and refuse to go away. There is nowhere to run.

          2. “We say “I feel lonely, I’m gonna call a friend” but what we are actually saying is “I’ve abandoned myself, and now I’m gonna use another human being to distract myself from the consequences”.”

            Yes, that is correct. Looking for comfort outside of self is always the dead end. Once the other human (or thing, such as a job, a hobby, a possession) go… this individual becomes utterly lost.

            Rinse and repeat.

            As I said before.. I’ve become my own shrink and priest and god and psychiatrist all rolled into one. The more time passes the less I need even that. In fact, hardly ever now.

  7. “.im not trying to be the best at anything other than being sure that im bringing the best version of myself to the table consistently.”

    That’s good, we don’t have any disagreements in this area anymore. It’s just that I realised that thriving for the best version of myself takes a hell of a lot of energy.. something I simply never had.

    People blessed with bucketloads of energy – go on to move the world. Unfortunately, they often have a limited grasp of only the immediate picture and see no further. Therefore, in the past few years I’ve really come to appreciate the differences between people.

    Without the energetic crazy bastards nothing would ever get off the ground. Without the phlegmatic apprehensive thinkers every enterprise would become a disaster. And many archetypes in between.

    Like Jed I’m just more apprehensive than most. Unlike him who was born in that mould – I acquired mine through the act of living and learning.

    Thank you for the kind words, and wait till we disagree again! The bones will get cracking 🚑

    I know you love life. Respect, J.

    1. When the mind realizes: “fuck, I’m gonna die” and it makes us run around like headless chickens, trying to “make every second count”, is it love and appreciation of life or is it fear of death that fuels us?

      1. The realization of death can definitely spur you into action but you would have to answer that question for yourself. Im far from “running around like a headless chicken.” Im quite deliberate.

        The reality is that you’re a human being with limited time to live and experience THIS. What are you gonna do about? I enjoy conceptualization and masterbation less and less but its a very personal question without any “right” answer. Whatever you settle on, make sure you’ll also be good with it while laying on your deathbed.

        The question appears more to me like – is seeing through human life and purpose actually greater understanding or just a fear of putting yourself out there and living a life thats worthwhile…

        1. “is seeing through human life and purpose actually greater understanding or just a fear of putting yourself out there and living a life thats worthwhile…”

          Do you want the truth?

          In many cases greater understanding stops one from engagement. Thus, it is fear, OR seeing futility of any action, OR no energy to affect anything, OR not giving a shit about the world.

          Or a combination of some /all of the above. The combination depends on each individual human being that sees through human life.

          I am very sure that Bill Gates, for instance, sees through human life plenty.

          1. As I see it, the “futility of doing anything” is divorced from reality. When one’s in the flow of life what to do becomes apparent. The fear would be in cocooning oneself away from this engagement. And why someone would do that is for the individual to decipher.

          2. ” “futility of doing anything” is divorced from reality”

            Not really, J. It IS the Absolute truth of Reality and you. You are dust. What you do – makes no difference in the bigger picture, none whatsoever. Hence, Jed’s philosophical quip about throwing kids under the bus.

            BUT in relative terms what you do in life makes a massive difference to you and to others. He does not throw kids under the bus.

            See… two sides to one coin: The Relative versus The Absolute. Yin and Yang. Black and White. Feminine and Masculine. Good and Evil… all these pairs of words refer to the same thing, and they even keep the order in each pair and can only be said in that same order.

            But of course as I said before.. no one can live in the Absolute; it’s a road to hell.

        2. “The reality is that you’re a human being with limited time to live and experience THIS.”

          The joke is that the reason death awareness shows up is to shake us out of this exact illusion.

          “(…)question without any “right” answer.”

          You don’t ask questions, you don’t get answers. Simple as that. Once you’re in that place where the mind admits “I don’t know, BUT I NEED to know to move on” it bends and the answer can come.

          “living a life thats worthwhile”

          And what’s that? For me it is life based on love, not fear. How it looks on the outside is not for me to decide.

          Once the mind realizes: “I am a fear-based creature, so it’s either me or love behind that steering wheel” then you get how pro-life this whole spirituality really is (or supposed to be) with its “surrender your ego, your independence, your separation”. But first we have to admit it: we are fear-based creatures, we run on fear. It’s just the way it is.

          And it isn’t easy, God knows it isn’t easy. Sadly spirituality is also full of examples how not easy it is. And yet it is the only way to “live a life that’s worthwhile”.

          P.S. There is mental masturbation and there is contemplation. Without the latter we ARE running around like headless chickens in whatever direction our tricky ego-minds OR feelings (right, Tano?) tell us to go at the moment (or not to go).
          The funny thing is that once we’ve left one ego-trap we can get so proud of ourselves that we don’t even notice we’ve just landed in another one. It is so damn tricky!

          1. You’re not really here to have a discussion, you’re here to have your beliefs confirmed.

            And I seem to pick up a hint of condescension.

  8. “death awareness shows up is to shake us out of this exact illusion.”

    You said this because J mentioned having limited time to experience this life. What exact illusion do you refer to?

    ““surrender your ego, your independence, your separation”

    Erm… one can surrender their weapons. Put them on the ground, sloowwly. How about Ego.. which is who EVERYONE is, is I, is ME, is SELF?

    It is the same as saying ‘surrender your kidneys’.. which are part of who/what you are, and cannot be lived without.

    Next.. ‘surrender your independence’. Nope. My answer is ‘Never will’. With a proviso.. none of us are entirely free. But whatever small slice of independence there is – I intend to keep it.

    Next.. ‘surrender your separation’. As far as I am aware I have never felt separated from anything. I don’t understand what exactly you imply by this term. Care to explain?

    Humans do run on fear, even when they convince themselves they do not. I should write an article devoted specifically to fear. It’s a big subject.

    1. To surrender is to “empty your cup” as they say in zen. You had to do that in order to have your “Big Bang” experience.

      Usually the first time it happens, that cup is emptied for us. Call it grace, emotional/mental overload, or both. Bend or break.

      In other words the body-mind becomes a vessel for Truth.

      And then we can learn to do it ourselves, willingly. Otherwise that first, forced insight can become our last one. At least until the cup overflows again.

      “Erm… one can surrender their weapons.”

      That’s a great metaphor actually.

  9. There is war, corruption, injustice and decay everywhere, one doesn’t need to look much far out in the distance. its literary everywhere, you can zoom on anything and find it or zoom out.
    However even the most horrible of it all becomes meaningless and absolutely prefect or kinda some staged drama when one looks with a little different lenses, when pulling the self out if. but again becomes hell once the self and all it’s survival and ideas are back in place. Maybe the seekers are those who want to cling to the former and kinda cement those visions because of thoughts.

    1. “even the most horrible of it all becomes meaningless and absolutely prefect or kinda some staged drama when one looks with a little different lenses, when pulling the self”

      It becomes a staged drama when one gains a higher perspective of life: detachment and amusement at the ant life.

      Nothing to do with self, except that said self gaining that said perspective (shuooot.. that was kinda a tongue twister).

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