U.G. Krishnamurti Enlightenment Versus Jed McKenna Enlightenment

“There is no self to be realized. The whole religious structure that has been built on this foundation collapses because there is nothing there to realize.”

U.G. Krishnamurti

U.G. is the guy whom I resonate with the most. Jed McKenna said in one of his books that there are passages of U.G. where he has no idea what the man is talking about.

That does not surprise me. To understand U.G. utterances one has to be of a similar internal disposition. U.G. was lost for most of his life, with no clearly defined ideas or understandings. Much was imposed on him by theosophists when he was still young (remember that his family was active in the society).  In the beginning he had NO UNDERSTANDING of his own, and no ability to question, just consuming the usual cocktail of Eastern spirituality and Western mysticism. He was impressionable and sensitive.

Then one day he began to question what was spoon-fed to him, and the discontent settled in. He spent the next 25 years or so searching. And found nothing in the end. He was a puppy who grew up, wised up and dropped his puppy-like perceptions. He finally saw for himself that enlightenment is just another human game. We always fancy something rare, exclusive, something very few can have. Something that will place us in a special group and, thus, will grant us a sense of own importance, while we all know inside just how insignificant each one of us is.

Jello

In short, U.G.’s ego was of the wobbly jello variety: colourful and appealing, but taking the shape of any mould it was placed in.

In contrast, Jed McKenna has always had a healthy, hard edge Ego, aka THE MIND that defines who and what we are. His was independent, sarcastic, critical, noticing any inconsistencies in the way people live their lives, and the lies that they push forward in order to advance. He noticed much early on, gifted with the mind that can observe, unlike U.G. who was quite naive, even child-like, and remained so to the end of his days. I am sure it (the Mind) brought Jed his own measure of suffering.

U.G. was a child who gained an adult-like vision and saw the world for what it was.

Jed McKenna was an adult who wished for the mind rest and a child-like innocence.

This is why Jed was puzzled by some of U.G. writing: they were coming to the centre from the opposite directions. When the mind opens – one gains what they were missing, this one little piece of themselves that was to complete the picture, to bring balance, to make one whole.

But what do I mean by ‘being lost for most of his life’?

Well, look back at your life as is up to now. I don’t know about you, but all I see in mine was the fog. Faint disjoint memories of life events that seemed to have happened to someone else.. things shaping up of their own accord and me not knowing why… everything seemingly taking place, and I am in the middle with no clue as to what any of that meant, if anything.

I have a very broken timeline of own life. Most of the decisions taken – were taken with zero conscious awareness. Like U.G. pacing the streets of London with no aim and purpose, driven by own thoughts only – I paced Moscow streets. Like U.G. shutting the metaphorical door to Ramanas of the world for their devious ways – I dropped all spiritual books in the charity shop and walked away. Like U.G. moving to the natural state – I forgot about self as an improvement project and just let it be as is, MY natural state.

Some of those decisions turned out so well, reflecting much of who I was, and THOSE – were taken consciously. Such as the decision to have one child and no more. It was an absolutely clear-cut decision taken in full awareness as to why. Such as the decision to move to England. I agonized over this one, because the decision had to be delivered to the interested parties in three short days.

Like U.G. I was an idiot to start with. The world felt beautiful, but also packed with lies. I could not, for the life of me, see in full awareness why it all felt dissatisfying, why so much misery prevailed. I had no ability to think clearly, obstructed by emotion and blocked by some defect in my mind that would not let it open.

No one taught critical thinking. No one told us to question everything and not to take things at face value. My so called education produced drones, and there was no internet to teach oneself to think otherwise. We were taught great classic literature, but no one told us there were QUESTIONS within those works, questions asked by intelligent and tortured people who wrote them.

No one told us that answers existed.

Unconsciously, I said to self “The world is as it is, and that’s that”. This is an argument put forward against the way I write: too simple, primitive, idiotic, not enough meat in my writing to sink one’s teeth into, not enough to mentally ruminate over and dissect and argue.

Simple is the way I like it. Life IS simple, both beautiful and brutal at its core, and only human minds make it complicated. Life is simple for that proverbial dog who licks your face, or bites your hand, all in the moment, and has very little to say in between. Life is also simple for myself now. There will be challenges, some will be hard and will make me cringe. There will also be good times, but in the end – everything must go.

I’ll take it like the dog.

Whatever rocks your boat, do it, because none of it matters except in the moment when it is happening. And when it has happened – it is already gone. But whatever moral/immoral decision one takes – those decisions will be the reflection of who they are and how far they are on the level of mind evolution.

That’s it!! That’s the meaning of one’s meaningless life. It may also include saving victims of human trafficking, murdering ladyboys in dark alleys. or baking sourdough bread. And you see… I knew all that way before the hammer dropped. I knew this in my twenties, and in my thirties, and you know this too, so WHAT THE HELL are you looking for?

As U.G. said… nothing. There is nothing to look for, and has never been.

But you will not get this simplicity. Minds like Jed’s – will not let you.

He wrote the books. Alan Watts. He gave lectures. Sam Harris. Rupert Spira. Bach. Ramana. Nissargadatta. Wilber. Kornfield. Dieda. Aurobindo. Ouspensky. Katie. Das. Maharishi. Gangaji. Adyashanti. Tolle. Chopra. Coelho. Mooji. Shankar. Sharma. Adi Da…

… various Sri’s, Mati’s, Devi’s and Baba’s of past and present, countless modern incarnations the likes of Teal Swan and Bentinho Massaro, those young charlatan apprentices.

…. more successful or less successful mind benders in the lineage of either the West or the East, but all miming in unison ‘ENLIGHTENMENT! YOU TOO CAN! COME AND SEE FOR YOURSELF’, like the Pied Piper of Hamelin taking the children further into the illusion.

Go.

Pied Piper

Note: U.G. wasn’t perfect either, and the above in no way implies that he was correct in everything. He was just a man.

Burnt Orange Geader

29 thoughts on “U.G. Krishnamurti Enlightenment Versus Jed McKenna Enlightenment

  1. If you knew all that before ‘the hammer dropped’, then what did you learn exactly when the hammer dropped?

    For me I have a goal for myself. Finish education and be in healthy shape. Also been letting myself be more just as what I am around people. But I find that quite challenging because I worry too much about others view on me. I just need to keep working on it because it is ingrained in me so deeply. It’s like instinctive flight reaction, except I need to endure it because I need to attend the class. I keep working on this because I don’t want to suffer from this my whole life.

    Besides what do you mean with ‘no self to be realized’? I’m sure one can learn about oneself and how oneself behaves, reacts and thinks and why it is so.

    1. The rest of the article is very clear and I know exactly what you mean with the fog of the past. Like it was just a dream. And it’s strange because it indeed is gone and away forever. It is only stored in a neuron pattern. The events that impressed most are stored most vividly because that’s how we decode whether an event was important. I also think our negative memories are most present because they help you prevent or deal with possible threats.

      I generally think there is nothing eternal at least nothing physical can be eternal. Still leaves me clouded on my what could be the source of all this then. How did all it rise then from void? Did you ever find any answer to that?

      1. “our negative memories are most present because they help you prevent or deal with possible threats”

        Pretty much. Life is hard in the animal kingdom, and we are not far off in our history of evolution.

        I’d say matter is eternal. But the forms it takes – are finite, always and all of them.

        1. I’ve been giving it some thought, but I don’t see how matter is eternal. I see it flowing into different forms and stages but… there is more to it I think.

          I’ve researched about energy and it remains hard for me grasp what it is exactly. I do believe energy is what allows everything to happen, allows movement. I think it is what lies at the heart of matter. But like I said, I can’t grasp what it is because you can’t see it like you see matter. The movement itself is energy.

          When you say matter I think of a solid type of universe, but I think it is fluid. Everything always changes so fast.

          Please tell me what your thoughts and/or understandings are on space, energy, and matter, and especially how they relate.

          “My hunch is it has always been there.”

          Also when you say it has always been there, that is such a paradox to me. I somewhere see that if something’s here now, something must’ve been, always. But then why does it seem linear and timeline? Like beginning and end? If it has always been then there cannot be time, can there now? Yet there is. The only thing I can think of then is that some kind of infinite loop is going on.

          And it just… it’s so weird, if there has ALWAYS been something, some kind of mindless substance morphing in infinite forms, eternity creating the temporary.

          1. An interesting line of thought, P.

            I am not a physicist, but energy is defined as capacity or potential for activity.

            Activity can mean lots of things in terms of physical properties, but I only see two:

            electromagnetic energy which seems to define pretty much the rest of different sub-energies such as chemical, radiation, thermal. All of it seems more or less about rearranging the atoms and their internal movements (such as thermal energy).

            and gravitational energy, which for me personally is harder to grasp, since there really is nothing that explains the mechanism of how gravity works.

            Then of course there is an inverted human form of using the word ‘energy’ for just about anything that’s not understood (either through ignorance or simply because we are as yet to discover it). Like.. the energy of crystals.. male/female energy… Kundalini energy.. and so on. These are just metaphors and are not to be used in the real sense of what ‘energy’ is.

            Energy forms always change, from kinetic to potential, from chemical to thermal. Our bodies are based on this constant energy transformation: synthesizing and breaking down matter.

            So my understanding of energy is not different from that of physics. I hold the physics notion of energy true, because it can be replicated and always works in given parameters. Anywhere in the world – it works. It works regardless of what people think of it.

            If the meaning of what energy is – is established without ambiguity, then I cannot see why it is complicated. True, one cannot ‘see’ energy; only observe or perceive its effects and results.

            The above doesn’t not mean I personally don’t marvel at how a mobile phone allows me to watch the whole movies without any seeming physical medium. I do marvel, and consider this true miracle, not one of those fake ones where people walk on water and statues cry and whatever else.

            I know the above is not nearly as satisfactory, but perhaps you could just read up on what energy actually is, and how it circulates in the world.

    2. “If you knew all that before ‘the hammer dropped’, then what did you learn exactly when the hammer dropped?”

      I did mention this in The Story:

      “I have since met a few people whom I now call ‘unconsciously enlightened’, those who live from the INNER SENSE. In retrospect, I was that too before it ‘got’ me.”

      One can be driven by a gut instinct. I’ve always been more of an instinctual nature, and very little of the thinking. That was ‘before’.

      When the hammer dropped I gained the ability to think in clear unobstructed ways. I don’t know why. I do know that before it happened I had spent two years attempting to answer all sorts of questions, which lead me looking into all sorts of life phenomena.

      “I need to endure it”

      Yes. You need to place yourself in situations where people will criticise and slaughter you. As you can see I’ve had a fair share of mine on here, but that has no effect on my moods and on who I am at core. Let them.

      “what do you mean with ‘no self to be realized’?”

      Not me, Krishnamurti.

      He meant that this big question means what you actually just said yourself: one can learn about oneself and how oneself behaves, reacts and thinks and why it is so. There s nothing beyond that.

      To illustrate.. imagine if I said “There is no leg to realise”.

      There isn’t. The leg is, that’s all. He did not at all mean there is no self. He meant “Here I am, myself, what more is there to look for and to understand?”

        1. Yeah that left me puzzled for so incredibly long. I thought long and hard sometime in the past about that strange poem Jed wrote about this in one of his books. But it lead nowhere and made no sense to me. One night I wrote hysterically that it was all just a big joke. Guess I was closer to truth that day than ever. It just seems so unproductive that all theses people and gurus write these riddles that aren’t actual riddles. Why make it seem so mysterious if there is literally nothing behind it?

          From personal experience I know that the universe holds strange phenomena that are still mysteries to human beings or simply undiscovered. I once experienced such a thing and it leaves me puzzled to this day. I knew it was real but I had no possible explanation for what it was. I searched for information but nothing on the internet spoke of but ONE other person who mentioned a very similar experience about a decade before me. This guy too remained unclear as of what it was.

          This experience and my intense curiosity always reminds of something I read in some book, maybe Jed not sure, about this guy going to his guru because he experienced something ‘paranormal’ like making some object float or something (I’m not even sure anymore what it was). But the guru puts him to work for 10 years as a punishment. My idea on it was that the guru made him work because these type of experiences can be real sometimes but have nothing to do with enlightenment.

          What I understand from you is that enlightenment isn’t something spiritual, special, paranormal, magical, fantastic etc… but very much down to earth. Yet these gurus managed to turn it into a mystery with their riddles. Is this true in your eyes or not? What IS the sense in these gurus over the centuries writing these books like Tao en whatnot… did they not know it would confuse? Why did they do it like this? I has driven millions of humans into a maze.

          Anyway regardless of having a brain that can function pretty decently from time to time, I’m actually a total mess at the current moment. The past year I’ve experienced more fear than ever and why? The why makes no sense.

          I recall something you said. You shrug your shoulders to the memories of past, bad, events. Not me. I don’t know how you can do that. I’m 24 and my life contains quite a bit of crap so far, but still. Somewhere along the lines it nestled in me and changed me. There grew something in me, a dark thing. Now there kind of are 2 of me in my brain. The original me that knows what matters to her and what she needs to be happy. And the dark me, that doubts everything, loses herself to fear, cowardness, insanity, bad things, self-hate, depression, neglect etc… Now the dark me has rose up after something happened to me physically (nothing dangerous but definitely uncomfortable). It rejected it, became obsessed, and brought terror with regard to how to deal with it. Mistakes were made and it’s still ongoing but I’m trying to regain my wits before I become mental. In my worst moments I feel like there is nothing left in my life without the dark me. Without all that terror. What if my problem gets solved? What is there? I’m thrown back into an open book with no purpose. I have to give purpose, do something, care for myself.

          I know you said fear is cowardness. But I suppose listening to fear instead of reason is cowardness. Not the fear itself, it is just natural. Refusing to go forward out of fear, refusing to take actions, refusing to get your shit together is cowardness. But that is currently who I am and have been lately. I have several options to go, but each one scares me. One is a potential threat but effective. The other not a potential risk, but unsure how effective or how long it will take.

          Somehow I just get stuck between choices each time. I’ve had this problem since I can remember. It puts me in limbo once again. Limbo is agony.

          1. @ petorikoru

            “One night I wrote hysterically that it was all just a big joke.”

            Here was your unconscious, gut based wisdom. However, you did not see it consciously: why and how it was all a big joke. That’s the end goal – to see things consciously.

            “But the guru puts him to work for 10 years as a punishment.”

            Yes, but not as a punishment. The guru did it to ground the chap so that the guy would begin to look at the real stuff and got his head out of the clouds as a result.

            “… enlightenment isn’t something spiritual, special, paranormal, magical, fantastic etc… but very much down to earth. Yet these gurus managed to turn it into a mystery with their riddles. Is this true in your eyes or not?”

            Yes, that is true. It is not mystical, and they did turn it into such. Jed included.

            “did they not know it would confuse? Why did they do it like this?”

            Consider just how many versions/explanations of what enlightenment IS – exist right now, and have existed over millennia. Some of those guys (and our contemporaries who write books ‘on enlightenment’) are genuinely deluded. I mean.. Jed wrote such a composition on Bhagavat Gita, but take the Gita in its historical content, and it becomes very clear why this particular piece had a pan Indian appeal and lasted through the centuries. So Jed’s pathos was misplaced, but I don’t think he actually understood it at the time. Don’t know if he does – now.

            Secondly, some of these writers do it to make a living. Sorry to be so prosaic. I know a couple who told me they would write a book on enlightenment, because one has to make a living anyhow, and so why not that. They hope it would take off and will provide them with some passive income. And when they do write.. do you really think they will break the tradition of talking about enlightenment as something extra ordinary? Phew!! I don’t think so. It would not sell without all the mystery and the fog. I mean.. Jed writes ‘Think for yourself’, but fails to give any clear real facts about this brooding life and about how HE HIMSELF decided to write a book on the subject.

            But for those who know who he is – the process of bearing the idea of an enlightenment book is clear as daylight. And for those who know his life history in more detail…

            I do intend to share it, yes. The corona virus impacted on the plans somehow.

            “I know you said fear is cowardness.”

            I did not say this. I said that cowardice is born out of fear, is a result of fear.

            “refusing to get your shit together is cowardness. But that is currently who I am and have been lately.”

            You may take solace in the fact that every human being is subject to some form of fear. It is normal. Fear makes people cautious. Fear is there because the organism has experienced some adversity. Children often have no fear to begin with, because they had no bad experiences – yet. Any young, such as little kittens, would try to cross the road with no fear of cars. But old cats know cars are deadly lol.

            Examine your fear and see if it is real. If it is real – any decision you make is always a risk, because there are never guarantees. You will lose some and you will gain some either way.

            “there is nothing left in my life without the dark me”

            There isn’t. The black hole and the little bastard are persistent phenomena in most humans, whether they admit this or not. After having accepted this fact you will see there is still plenty of light stuff in life, no matter how dark it is.

            Limbo… are you in a hurry to get some place? Coz no matter what you do – you are not getting anywhere. So what’s wrong with limbo? Enjoy the state of indecision. You have a choice, enjoy this fact.

            Dead people have no choice.

  2. Hi Tano….the ugliness of pride and hubris is possibly more obvious to an external observer…. yet is humility ,in any form, even possible if the fallacious ego- self is left in charge.? even seemingly positive attributes can be major road blocks to genuinity if they remain connected to pseudo- I. To understand that there is no such thing as enlightenment as there is no-one to be enlightened is only step 1 as there remains all the habituation and conditioning to be ridded… The current personality cult ethos seems extremely counter productive in this regard. Clear thinking and reason can take you so far… Yet for me it has been the associative diminishment of self interest that bespeaks volumes.
    Nothing objective has been, is, nor will ever be actual or real except as an appearance in split mind. If mind and not matter is the ontological primitive then there has to be a total reset…. I understand this…I try to now live into this….faint glimmers of intuition encourage continued relinquishment ….negation as apposed to affirmation…emptying out as apposed to accumulation…be that somatic or psychic stuff. Thankyou for introducing me to Richard Rose… Enjoy his insights….akin to Wei wu wei in many regards….thanks for looking, looking, looking…what else remains? Sincerely Graham.

    1. Graham,

      I have a mixed internal response to your post.

      “is humility ,in any form, even possible if the fallacious ego- self is left in charge.?”

      That depends on what one chooses to understand as ‘humble’, and if you look it up – there is quite a range of words describing humility.

      To answer – yes, it is entirely possible to have a healthy ego AND remain humble. Once dispensed with what you called a ‘pseudo I’ – a real healthy self-respecting and, by extension, respecting others “I” emerges from the ashes of self-immolation.

      It is not the absence of the mind and the absence of the sense of self that defines you at the end of the process. It is their total and consciously recognised PRESENCE. It is the real you as the whole, emotionally healthy and mentally mature individual that one becomes.

      So do away with these faulty notions of no self, no objective, no ego. What is this below?

      “Nothing objective has been, is, nor will ever be actual or real except as an appearance in split mind. If mind and not matter is the ontological primitive then there has to be a total reset…. I understand this…I try to now live into this…”

      or this?

      “To understand that there is no such thing as enlightenment as there is no-one to be enlightened”

      Hence, my ambivalence towards your post. On the one hand, you display this obligatory meekness of the long-term seeker with some rock-hard embedded ideas of the ‘spiritual’….. which the majority takes for ‘humility’……………………………………

      On the other hand, there is a palpable feeling of suppressing yourself, and that’s got to go some place one day………………………

      I wouldn’t want to be in the way when it does.

      Give up Richard Rose; he had his own half-formed strange notions. Give up Wei Wu Wei…. where the hell is Graham????

      P.S. Thanks for the kind words.

  3. “because none of it matters except in the moment when it is happening. And when it has happened – it is already gone”

    I don’t know anyone living from moment to moment.

    “That’s it!! That’s the meaning of one’s meaningless life… so WHAT THE HELL are you looking for?”

    For me, knowing it is meaningless is not enough. I expect the meaningless to really pervade.

    1. ” don’t know anyone living from moment to moment.”

      You are saying that people always make plans. Of course. But they do it while living from moment to moment.: one does not exclude the other.
      However, they are always thinking as and when that living is happening, at the same time as the living is happening, which obscures this fact.

      To give you an example, you might be reading this now, but you are also running a gamut of thoughts in parallel to your reading, which can range from “What the hell is she on about?” to “Not to forget to buy milk today” to “My child is failing her maths class” to.. whatever. The Mind is mostly split between various simultaneous thinking activities that compete for attention.

      This is why our living in the moment is perceived as a protracted act, a time channel of lasting attributes.

      But that’s not really important. The important bit that I wanted to convey is that every moment you have lived – can never be replicated. Focus on that moment or situation in full; you ain’t gonna live that ever again.

      “knowing it is meaningless is not enough. I expect the meaningless to really pervade.”

      Yes. But one cannot order an insight. That is why religious nutters call it ‘grace’. It hits one or not.

      However, the meaningless comes from death awareness mostly. Strangely, my Jed research also enhanced it greatly. When one goes through tonnes of old materials of people who are long dead even when their building, possessions, off-spring and so on – are still around… to be gone too very soon…. the temporary nature of this existence is really brought home.

      Court Death. Dance with it. Understand it. That should show ya.

      P.S. That was also Jed’s advice. He is correct there.

      1. “Focus on that moment or situation in full; you ain’t gonna live that ever again.”

        i hope you won’t go ‘living in the now’ on me [i can almost hear that voice].
        all those irremediable moments are immortalized by the sense of identity, they are projected, and retrojected. to me living like this would mean a loss of identity, or a narrowing of the things one defines himself with. only Alzheimer and self-loss enlightened victims seem to be able to do that… well, maybe i’m exaggerating.
        i guess you basically advocate a more focused living. but you know, a more more focusing leads one into meditation…

        “Court Death. Dance with it. Understand it. That should show ya.”

        you mean to be actively aware of the prospect of everything ending, and the unbearable stillness of eternity? it puzzles me why some thing moves me sometimes and other times it doesn’t.

        1. i guess you basically advocate a more focused living. but you know, a more more focusing leads one into meditation…”

          Yes, and it has nothing to do with meditation.

          Have you ever paid attention to how you walk? Like.. how you place your feet on the ground? How you bring forward your right knee.. then the whole leg follows? You place your feet firmly on the ground; there is a connection to the ground

          Have you felt the texture (yes, texture) of the water when washing the dishes? The sound when the tap is turned? How your skin reacts when the water hits it? The squickiness of wet clean plates and how slippery they are?

          Have you ever turned your eyes sloo-owly following the sunset? When the sun meets the horizon line and ever so gently touches the sea? And at that very moment you become motionless and hold your breath for a few seconds?

          Have you ever planned something in your head, and the thoughts followed in an absolutely straight fashion, in the right order of what needs to be done, and it felt neat and focused, and no thought ran away from you and branched into a dozen other thoughts?

          Have you ever gone to bed without a prolonged thinking binge about some perceived problems that kept you tossing and turning. When you simply turned in, snuggled under your covers, carefree and worry free, and the sleep came by itself?

          Or simply this… after work are you in a mad rush to get out and so dump everything as is, without consideration for those who might be using the same space later, because you can’t wait to get out… Or do you consciously take your time to make sure all is sorted for yourself or for others before you go, and you enjoy this instead of feeling annoyed that hey! everyone’s already left, and you are the last one as usual?

          Deliberate living is very pleasurable. There is nowhere to rush. All is done consciously and in full awareness.

          1. You’re a kick!

            “Have you ever paid attention to how you walk?…”

            I think this is vipassana trade mark.

            “Have you felt the texture (yes, texture) of the water …”

            I used to love playing in water. Sometimes I’d deflate my lungs and let my body sink to the bottom, keeping still.

            “Have you ever turned your eyes sloo-owly following the sunset? …”

            This is Vijnana Bhairava Tantra.

            “Have you ever planned something in your head, and the thoughts followed in an absolutely straight fashion, in the right order of what needs to be done, and it felt neat and focused, and no thought ran away from you and branched into a dozen other thoughts?”

            Actually I’m a bit amazed when things go along my plans. Usually, when planning is needed, they don’t, or not fully. I can’t say that thoughts don’t branch out. What you are describing is more like a revelation or pure intuition.

            “Have you ever gone to bed without a prolonged thinking … When you simply turned in, snuggled under your covers, carefree and worry free, and the sleep came by itself?”

            Sleep always comes by itself, but “carefree” never crosses my mind. I just tug in, maybe feel some comfort.

            “…Or do you consciously take your time to make sure all is sorted …”

            Anybody feels some contentment when doing right, whatever that is, when the job is done. Ah, you mean when all things were accounted for. I usually get tired…maybe some relief, one less nuisance.

            “Deliberate living is very pleasurable. There is nowhere to rush. All is done consciously and in full awareness.”

            Yes, not the life I know, and the best awareness is when you’re aware of the fact that you don’t know what to do. I really like that.
            I know, I’m bitching and I’m a pain in the ass – see… I’m fully aware.
            Still [taking it to the extreme], when really focused on living there’s not much time left for feeling good about it, actually there’s no room for you.

          2. I don’t know what Vipassana is. Heard the word, but have no idea.

            You are not a pain in the ass. You are thinking. I can hear it, and that’s good. Just keep it clear: there are times for sentimentality, and times for purposeful thinking.

            “when really focused on living there’s not much time left for feeling good about it”

            Not true, Ze. It is not the focus of studying the maths with all the intent of mastering that. It is simply paying attention to own sense of being. That is completely effortless, and it comes on its own. In a way.. it’s like the poetry of movement, sound, vision, smell; it is very..hmmm… sensual (not sex sensual, but when one is in touch with own senses, instead of thinking, thinking, thinking…

            Like.. when you are swimming for instance, and it is pleasurable, and YET your mind keeps getting distracted, thinking all other thoughts besides the swim.. you are missing the sensual aspect in favour of mentation.

            Most people do that and THUS ARE NOT PRESENT IN THE ACTIVITY THEY ARE ENGAGED IN.

            Don’t know how to express this clearer. In one word: Presence. That’s all.

        2. “you mean to be actively aware of the prospect of everything ending, and the unbearable stillness of eternity?”

          Not ‘everything ending’.

          YOU ending.

          We will never know whether eternity is unbearable. We will not exist to know that. The thoughts about it – could be, at least, to begin with.

          Eternity is not still. There is nothing there, and nothing cannot be still, only objects can be still or moving. Nothing. At all. You came from the nothingness of not being, and you will return into that nothingness.

          One needs to feel it viscerally, without thought, like a … disease I suppose, in order to understand the implications for one’s life.

          People live as if they are immortal.

          1. yes, me ending, and with it everything i experience, or the end of all my perceptions. i think i mentioned this in my past comments. i don’t think the mind can truly imagine it’s absence. it just slips into something seemingly different, like “i’ll be gone, but the life goes on.” “life goes on” is the slip. even the language forbids it.

  4. @T
    “…but when one is in touch with own senses, instead of thinking, thinking, thinking…”

    All sorts of itches start then…

    “Don’t know how how to express this clearer. In one word: Presence. That’s all.”

    I understand you mean sense of being with no fantasizing.
    The fantasies come from somewhere, and not always called for. Unless their source is somehow nullified the presence doesn’t stay for long.

    1. “I understand you mean sense of being with no fantasizing.”

      In a way. There is a sensual side of existence when one is in direct awareness of and direct contact with their senses. At some point this awareness becomes an intrinsic part of one’s functioning as I tried to describe, when you feel sensations, movement, sounds, and your body follows those. There is a great sense of satisfaction in following one’s natural movements.

      As an example… I remember a passage from The Damnedest where Jed stood in the kitchen and felt not doing this, this and that, so he said he would just stand there in the middle waiting for the next impulse to move him in some direction. That resonated greatly. That’s how it becomes.

      There is also a thinking side to our human existence, and there is nothing wrong with thinking per se; clear aware thinking is the key to getting out of continuous thought loops that haunt most people.

      This is why Jed and actually myself elevate thinking above the merely sensual experience: the right thinking (for lack of a better word) takes one out of the loop and into a streamlined cognitive process. It then excludes daydreaming, fantasizing, wishful thinking and so on.

      I understand that for most people to lose this part of how their minds function – can be extremely hard. At some point in the past I couldn’t even imagine the possibility of it, like imagining that one day I’d learn to speak Chinese (never gonna happen).

      But it happened, and with years passing – got better.

      Again, I want to stress that clear lines of thinking do not exclude feeling. One will feel; it’s part of our animal physiology.

      “Unless their source is somehow nullified”

      The source of fantasies is emotional attachment to the event. It is a glue that holds the loops of wasteful thinking in place. Fuck me.. I’m beginning to sound like Jed or even Ken.

      Anyways… forget about going over every emotion, past hurt and the wrong done to you, trying to dig them up and ‘examine’ them. That’s useless. Get past them to the truth of every situation you find yourself in – and those emotions will disintegrate into the nothing they are.

      1. Huh, what a sermon.

        “Again, I want to stress that clear lines of thinking do not exclude feeling”

        I can see feeling there, both as sensation and emotion, with emotions as a “side-effect.” Emotions to be experienced, but not dwelled on.

        “Get past them to the truth of every situation you find yourself in – and those emotions will disintegrate into the nothing they are”

        I have to add that it’s not only about those emotions like past hurts. To me the emotional fabrication goes deeper than that, and not usually discerned [or in fact I’m crazy]. For instance, if I would do that, really do “just stand there in the middle waiting for the next impulse,” the first impulse I’d get would be “now breathe already.” To me even the simple awake breathing is something is related to that fabrication, and becomes natural only when asleep. Sometimes I feel that even the fact of simply seeing something is somehow fabricated.

          1. I wouldn’t pay attention to it, but it happens that when I lock my mind on something [really lock it, from moment to moment], my breath stops.

  5. “Yes. You need to place yourself in situations where people will criticise and slaughter you. As you can see I’ve had a fair share of mine on here, but that has no effect on my moods and on who I am at core. Let them.”

    yes. hard lesson for me. i lived that life for a long time – always resisting the criticism. even when i knew the resisting suggested emotional attachment to self or beliefs or whatever and in the end caused suffering; there was always the “yeah but this shit ain’t right!” Get destroyed. sucks to watch.

    anyhoo, love the site. how do you make your money to carry on in this life? I ask because books can be annuities……as jed has come to know.

    1. Thank you.

      how do you make your money to carry on in this life? “

      I have an ordinary job and depend on it for survival just like most.

      “books can be annuities……as jed has come to know.”

      ‘Jed’ hasn’t come to know it I am afraid. He planned it that way from the start. He knew exactly what he was doing and why.

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